Roast and Learn Together - April 2014 - Page 3

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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#21: Post by boar_d_laze »

As the month draws to a close, I'm tweaking my final Dench Meng profiles for better staying power. Days four and five of the brew profile, have as much vibrancy as day three -- enough on day five to continue piercing the Royal's tendency to hide sparkle behind a mountain of mellow.

Brew method:
  • Royal Siphon;
  • 900ml (eyeball estimate) water, (siphon brewing means the temperature of water in is unimportant); and
  • 54g coffee, ground "medium/medium-fine" by the jaws of Bunnzilla.
My cupping notes from all three days were: medium body; silky mouthfeel; juicy; strawberry; raspberry on the edge of the tongue; raspberry acidity but little citrus, sweet or otherwise, and NO lemon; intrinsic sweetness, but less so than previous roasts and brewing methods (Espro, FP, and Chemex + Kone). I attribute most of the difference to the Royal and the higher Drop.

No grit, no funk, no fermentation. If you're getting those or other off notes, it's probably a result of roasting and not the bean or brew method.

Linda drank hers with cream and sugar, was less sure about the berries, detected no sourness or bitterness, and thought it made an "excellent dessert coffee."

Here's the plot:

Note 1: Compared to Brando's recommendation, on this final roast (as well as a previous roast not detailed in this thread), and as already discussed in an earlier post, I extended Drying and Development, while pushing Ramp. My "ideal profile" going in was 6:30, 4:00, and 3:00. IMO, 3min development would have been better than the 3:12 actually hit.

Note 2: This roast required a tough fight to keep from stalling during Development. You can see the deflection on the BT line where exothermia ends, and Delta BT briefly drops as low as +2F/min. Here, as usual, I opened the damper to full roaster, and increased fan to 100% in anticipation of 1stCs (you can see the ET deflection on the ET line at a few F before 1stCs); and controlled Delta BT with the gas. Although I used the same setting as usual when looking for a Delta BT of ~5F (1.8" of water), it turned out to be a piss-poor guess.

But good coffee, so oh well.

Sadly, I'm out of Dench Meng except for a few beans which will go in the anonymous blend hotch pot.

I've got some espresso resting. I'll post in a couple of days after loading it into the hopper.

Looking forward to May,
Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator

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#22: Post by boar_d_laze »

Let me add something to my last post.

The notes regarding things like an "ideal profile," and the various improvised solutions for things (and there's always a few) which went south during the course of the roast aren't there only for completeness or because I expect you (whomever you are) to do the same things in the same way.

This is "Roast and Learn." We're all in the same boat, all struggling to improve, all trying to do more "on purpose." If you have questions, ask. I'm not the world's greatest home roaster by any means, nor do I have experience with every roaster out there. But I'm not the only one here, either.

Even if no one has an answer, at least we can huddle together, taking comfort from one another as we softly whimper into the void.

Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator


#23: Post by pShoe »

I had good results with my last brew roast. Bodhi Leaf's roast is a lot of blueberry whereas mine is more raspberry. Both are berry good :wink:. My gf puts butter and coconut oil in her morning coffee (it's a keto thing) and when prepared with BL's roast it tasted just like a blueberry muffin.

I was clearly planted in the "you should never freeze coffee" camp. I had no choice when BL's roasted coffee came in because I had so much already. Anyway, I'm switching sides. Freezing the coffee had no ill effects. Even if that is my only "learning" this month, I'll call it a win.

I'm happy with this brew profile, but I think going lighter (light side of city) will be a bit better... I know it is hard to see, but I dropped it at a city + 418F BT.

My espresso roast went too dark again. I wanted to finished it 10 degrees lower than what happened, but keep the development time I achieved. Oh well, I know what I have to do next time.

For those using this coffee for espresso, how are you brewing it (dose, temp, etc.)? I've been dosing lower and lower lately and enjoying the results.

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#24: Post by boar_d_laze »

Dench Meng Espresso - Final Profile - Roast 3

I don't have a lot to add to the post where I wrote about my plans to tweak the espresso profile for this bean; other than the roast went very much according to plan.

In the cup impressions were very similar to those for the Dench Ming Brew final profile. The dominant notes were berry -- specifically tart, "seedy" berries like raspberry, blackberry and boysenberry. I'd say "olalieberries," but most of you probably aren't familiar with them. Strawberry/rhubarb might be a little more accessible.

But similar is not the same as "the same." The espresso wasn't as "juicy" as the brew (which is partly roast, and partly the difference in grinders).

It had some bakers chocolate -- mostly in the crema, and not in finish -- which wasn't at all present in any of the brew or previous espresso roasts.

It also had considerably more weight and a much richer, "truffle" mouthfeel than any of the brew or the first espresso roasts. However, I doubt it would have made the complete journey to truffle-goodness without an grinding in an extremely good grinder and pulling through a naked pf.

Here's the plot:

Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator

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#25: Post by boar_d_laze »

Final Thoughts:

I'm usually pretty confident about scoring a coffee as soon as I've cupped it; it's not often that actual tweaking for best roast disturbs my initial impressions by much.

Dench Meng was different.

I think Brando's brew and espresso profiles (or at least the stabs I took at them) produced a lot of berry excitement, predominated by sweet lemon. In the brew it was candied lemon peel, and in the espresso it was lemonade... but if you called them both "lemon drop" it would be fair.

But the fall off from all the excitement was very rapid. By the third day post "rested" for either roast, all of the lemon and most of the berries disappeared. The most I could coax out of brew was a little berry edge to the juiciness I almost always get when grinding with Bunnjira. Otherwise, as a third wave coffee, it was reduced to foam on the shore.

Espresso was similar. The roast peaked during the 6th and 7th day, but had significantly faded by the 9th. From then on, the shots were pleasant but I was tasting my equipment and technique as much as the bean -- and that's pretty much NOT the point.

Compared to Brando's, my own "style" (such as it is) is considerably conservative, MOR, and just all-around "medium." I typically roast slower through Drying, Ramp faster, allow a longer Development, and Drop a skosh darker. Where he's C for brew, I'm C+; and where he's C+ for espresso, I'm leaning against the edge of FC.

When roasting my way, almost all of the lemon was lost, but most of the berries were retained; some body was added; along with some depth; low notes were enhanced, and the coffee exhibited significantly better keeping power. Overall though, the MOR roasts aren't as exciting.

Regarding keeping power specifically, 11days into a "my style" brew roast, Linda remarked that the coffee (Espro) was "really good" and without knowing what it was used the same terms to describe it as she had when it was 3days post roast. She may not have the jargon, but she does have a keen palate and her word is gold.

Excellent coffee, good lyrics, you can dance to it, but I don't think either style of roasting puts it at or over the magic 90. Call it an 88.0.

The experience with Bodhi Leaf was fantastic. Not only are they nice people to work with, BL checks all of my boxes as a supplier with a large, well chosen selection; competitive prices; efficient; helpful; knowledgeable; thrifty; brave; clean and reverent.

I enjoyed facilitating February, March, April and May; but am very much looking forward to returning to the "Learn" part of R&L.

So long April. Hello May.

Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator


#26: Post by pShoe »

I guess it wouldn't hurt posting my my finial thought too. My first roasts were not crowd pleasers. Subsequent roasts impressed the GF, and the small group of coffee geeks I've converted at work. One of them grabbed a bean out of the bag and chewed on it. Now, I've chewed on a bean or two in my time, but this was so lightly roasted I worried he'd break a tooth :shock:. Luckily his got a good set of chompers, and said "wow, it tastes like a berry." The rest of the beans were chewed up by the LIDO 2 and brewed in a French Press. I enjoyed the coffee. The timing was great because I've been wanting to improve my roasting of DP Ethiopians. It fulfilled those needs. I'll leave the scoring to the more experienced. Any score I'd come up with would just be calibrated to what I've experience, and not some objective set of criteria.

I also noticed a pretty fast fall off of the coffee.

Rich, thanks for spear heading the last few months.

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#27: Post by Almico »

I've come to really love this bean. I bought 5# and still have a few left. This morning I made an Americano with my La Pavoni from some 2 week old beans and am really enjoying it. I've roasted and tasted several other varieties in the mean time, both good and not so good, but coming back to this bean is very satisfying.

Unlike other recent coffees I've tried, this one seems to very tolerant with a large margin of error. It just does different things at different profiles, but I haven't had a bad one yet. I think I have to get some more.

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Boldjava (original poster)
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#28: Post by Boldjava (original poster) »

Almico wrote:... I think I have to get some more.
Grab some Luque -- Nelson is very high on it. We will be cupping it tomorrow at our monthly cupping evaluation. ... ulio-luque
LMWDP #339