Old Huky Owner - 200g charges need to shine.

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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Chert

#1: Post by Chert »

There is an open thread with some great pointers - Thanks Brewzologist! - but my effort is different enough, so I will start a new one and reference that one. New Huky owner - please recommend a 250g recipe.

I have a series of samples on the way, which at 200 g each -, sound more doable than the small charges like 150 g I have tried before.

Temperature probes aren't going to help that well and sounds are muted, but depending on the bean, 1Cs may still declare itself.

My strategy: steady minimal fan throughout - just adequate for convection. BT probe 200C (usual charge temp for this low mass drum) Gas on at 30sec - 30; Cut gas at 1:30 - 20; Cut gas at 5 min - 10; Cut gas at BT 188C - 4; raise gas at BT 192C - 7; drop gas at 1Cs + 45 sec - 2; drop beans at FCs about 10C above 1Cs onset about 1:20sec dev time. (This approach is modeled after my usual larger charge steps - but my probes aren't so helpful)

With my first test bean, High grown bean honey process bean from Guatemala the method delivered the sweetest, fruitiest coffee I enjoyed from the bean. Very encouraging. For Coffees from Brasil, I haven't used the Goose (as I call bumping heat around 188C for 4 C rise)

Trying to describe the gas settings is maybe not very clear, but the artisan graph as well may not be that helpful. maybe it can be adjusted to show settings more clearly. I will post later.

If you have experience downcharging with adjusting your roaster to achieve a successful light or medium roast, how do you drive yours?
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Brewzologist
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#2: Post by Brewzologist »

Flint; I don't have actual experience with batch sizes that small on the Huky, but imagine that the BT probe is mostly useless. Yes, if you can post a profile from an actual roast or from Artisan Designer, it would be helpful. A few random thoughts:

1. Consider a lower charge temp with the smaller batch size, shooting for a similar TP to your normal batches.

2. Assuming you're following the usual declining RoR approach, I'd probably also reduce my initial gas setting by 0.5-1.0 kPa so my max RoR stays similar. Both 1&2 may help reduce any potential for tipping/scorching too with a smaller batch.

3. Even though the BT probe is less useful due to bean mass not covering it as well, you can use ET and MET as indirect proxies for what's happening in the bean mass. They're mostly just reading air normally anyway. Maybe turn their curves on in Artisan and use a background roast profile from a larger batch to follow them with.

4. I'd still aim for similar milestone times. For DE you can rely more on the bean color than the BT probe, which frankly I do all the time anyway.

HTH.

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hankua
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#3: Post by hankua »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKBKOkNMxAU

I went back to look at Peter Hudecek's excellent Huky plexiglass test roasts, the agitation and bean probe contact is better than what one would expect; with the 70 rpm motor. What I've found running 1/2lb roasts on a 500g machine is they often come out more developed that what I was aiming for and less controllable.

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Chert (original poster)

#4: Post by Chert (original poster) »

hankua wrote:video

I went back to look at Peter Hudecek's excellent Huky plexiglass test roasts, the agitation and bean probe contact is better than what one would expect; with the 70 rpm motor. What I've found running 1/2lb roasts on a 500g machine is they often come out more developed that what I was aiming for and less controllable.
I agree - with lower charges those issues come up. Like Steve mentions above, control needs focus less on BT than larger batches, even though the BT is not irrelevant at 200g at least, like it would at 50. I tried 70 rpm, but went back to my usual 54 rpm. Not that slower is better, but its a bit quieter and what I am accustomed to. I'm sure it can be done fairly reliably, but challenges of using the wonderful little roaster Huky persist, Gas control requires the hand on a knob, interference and choice of temp probe type affect graphing, the little tryer is - IMHO - not as helpful with roast smell cues as I would wish.
Brewzologist wrote:Flint; I don't have actual experience with batch sizes that small on the Huky, but imagine that the BT probe is mostly useless. Yes, if you can post a profile from an actual roast or from Artisan Designer, it would be helpful. A few random thoughts:

1. Consider a lower charge temp with the smaller batch size, shooting for a similar TP to your normal batches.

2. Assuming you're following the usual declining RoR approach, I'd probably also reduce my initial gas setting by 0.5-1.0 kPa so my max RoR stays similar. Both 1&2 may help reduce any potential for tipping/scorching too with a smaller batch.

3. Even though the BT probe is less useful due to bean mass not covering it as well, you can use ET and MET as indirect proxies for what's happening in the bean mass. They're mostly just reading air normally anyway. Maybe turn their curves on in Artisan and use a background roast profile from a larger batch to follow them with.

4. I'd still aim for similar milestone times. For DE you can rely more on the bean color than the BT probe, which frankly I do all the time anyway.

HTH.



Good suggestions Steve
1. I should try that. I'm pleased with my roasts despite considering the HUKY mass and charge temp not as key as many claim they are. My practice of roughly 200C allows quicker back to back roasts with the little thing. But a between batch protocol (BBP in the Rao-verse) that runs fan and no gas could quickly allow me to drop to 180, so it's worth testing.

2. I don't think I get those issues with my methods at higher charges or these 40% max charges. I have the most recent trial roasts and I don't see scorching. At the lower charge / gas settings of the roast I will post below, that particular been has less charred chaff than my earlier larger charges. (that honey process bean can produce oily dark chaff, unlike any bean I have roasted at city roast levels - it's weird)

3. This area is where I may need to apply some learning to optimize for the Brasil naturals this effort is targeting.

4. Same milestones makes sense to me. Roasters fancy there is one preferred roast profile for a bean. But probably great coffee shines if roasted well - at a variety of levels. The "optimized" sample roast hopefully shows all highly selected and carefully processed coffees in a good light. Therefore I suppose my task is "just don't mess it up."

Here's the graph of my first effort, which tasted so sweet and fruity as espresso, but is a high grown honey process from Atitlan Guatemala.




Right around 7 minutes, I get a plateau in ET and BT, In a larger charge, I may not get that much plateau in BT with a similar goose in the gas.

I'll post in a subsequent entry later today 4 of the 5 roasts I'm tasting now.
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Chert (original poster)

#5: Post by Chert (original poster) »

These are the three roasts I'm cupping. (it is me so grains of salt):



Spoiler: show
a natural from guji, ethiopia ;fragrance: fruity, some peach; aroma: --- ;body: flavor: hot - lots, but not successful cool - fruit baked off complex, bitter Buy?:no rank: 2/3 BUT I find the espresso nice in sweet-tart peachy sort of way (extracted the day following the cupping referenced here
I don't know how I disappeared the report box from the graph.



Spoiler: show
Guatemala Atitlan honey; fragrance: fruity, sandlewood; aroma: slight boozy; body: --- flavor: hot - cool - fruity gose / cocoa Buy?: no; rank 3/3




Spoiler: show
Daterra Guarani fragrance:fruity, peanut; aroma: that chemical note I get on the break and don't know what is or how to describe better; body: flavor: hot - pleasant fruit on slurp, but overall peanut; cool Buy?: no; rank: 3/3 . Espresso much more appealing than the prominent peanut i got cupped. A complex mix of sweet red fruit toffee type muddled impressions ; 98.5c pourover Kalita wave: fruity, boozy, some spice, pleasant a bit thin
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Chert (original poster)

#6: Post by Chert (original poster) »

A couple of forum members have smidges of these ( and 2 other) small batch roasts, thus the spoiler bars i hide my comments as i taste these coffees, variously extracted. I hope to understand / taste the creme de la creme among the incoming samples, but it's also a great learning experience for me as a taster / roaster.
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Chert (original poster)

#7: Post by Chert (original poster) »

None of my samples were underdeveloped in that first effort, but for me cupping them, I wasn't thrilled, so I did a couple more of Brasil Daterra Guarani and from those I'm getting more fruit. I can give profile specifics from home later.

@Steve aka Brewzologist. I think you have this bean. What time or temp or other description of development have your roasts had best balance of development and fruit expression?

or anyone for high quality Brazil naturals in general?
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Brewzologist
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#8: Post by Brewzologist »

You must have been talking to Michael recently! :)

Just pulled 360gr of D20 out of deep freeze and roasted this past weekend using a profile that's worked well in the past. Solid drum at 68rpm. Looks quite similar to your recent profile. I never recall smelling/tasting 'peanut' though. Letting it rest a couple more days and will report back on tasting.


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CarefreeBuzzBuzz

#9: Post by CarefreeBuzzBuzz »

Brewzologist wrote:You must have been talking to Michael recently! :).....

I can't confirm or deny but the Hooligan Bengals can be bribed.
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Brewzologist
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#10: Post by Brewzologist »

Flint; I made a pour-over of the D20 roast this morning. Some tasting notes:

Creamy mouthfeel with a fermented acidity (you'd expect from this coffee), sweet with a pleasant aftertaste again with some fermented notes. I get some grape jolly rancher for flavoring. No peanuts though!

I find a full cup of fermented coffees to be a little bit fatiguing to get through. But compared to others the D20 is more subdued and enjoyable. I will use this in a post-roast blend of 2-3 coffees to add sparkle to bass notes provided by other coffees. HTH.