New to gas roasting - please help! - Page 4

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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JohnB.
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#31: Post by JohnB. »

Brewzologist wrote:+1. I've used this for years. Cheap. Still working. I find a standard 1PSI regulator is insufficient for my Huky and the only reasonable option is to go to a variable regulator. If that still isn't sufficient then buy the higher power Cormorant burner and you can still use this regulator, right?
If changing the tank regulator doesn't solve the gas issue then there is a problem with the built in regulator. Yes, the 0-5 psi regulator works fine with either stove.
LMWDP 267

ShotClock (original poster)
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#32: Post by ShotClock (original poster) »

Thought I'd post an update to this thread - I had a couple of weeks not roasting, but have a few more batches under my belt now - 17 roasts in total.

My issues with controlling the roaster seem to be sorted out now. The gas pressure issue was solved with a new regulator - just a cheap variable one from Amazon did the job. There is some backlash in the gas pressure adjuster when the roaster is cold, but once it is warmed up, it is quite controllable even below 5 mBar.

I've started to produce drinkable results, although not spectacular yet. Here are my three roasts from today:

Yirgacheffe 400g - courtesy of LBIespresso (Andrew):

Thought this was a bit slow at the start, not quite enough momentum into FC, then a stall. Will try this tomorrow, but don't have very high hopes.

Yirgacheffe 415g:

Tried to be a bit faster here and have some more energy at the start, and a little more momentum into FC. Still a bit of a crash, but dropped without a flick, so it might be a decent one.

Buno Dambi Uddo 500g:

Thought I could actually trust myself to try roasting something that I really like for the first time here. A nice fruity, funky Ethiopian DP. I went for 500g to slow things down a bit, along with a slightly reduced charge temp. This looked really good to me, dropped daily light by my standards, just at the end of FC. Massive fruity smells coming from the roaster here - not sure if this is common, but have never experienced this before.

Again, many thanks for all of the helpful advice!

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mkane

#33: Post by mkane »

:wink:

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drgary
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#34: Post by drgary »

Dave,

You might try not allowing ET to decrease and to have enough separation between ET and BT that ET always tends to pull BT upwards. This may occasionally produce what looks like a flick during and after 1C, but I'm finding that it often doesn't taste baked. I was advised and am finding true that a decrease in ET may cause baked notes even if BT ROR consistently declines. Another possible alteration is to avoid too low a BT ROR during 1C, which may create baked flavors. I offer these suggestions as someone still learning the roasting process and being offered tips by others who are more experienced.
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

ShotClock (original poster)
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#35: Post by ShotClock (original poster) »

Thanks for the tips.

Gary - you are quite perceptive, having tasted the roasts, they are all baked with extremely muted acidity. Do you have any ideas as to how I might keep the ET high while having a declining RoR? Probably the least baked was the first Yirg - the one that crashed. Maybe if I stay on the gas a little longer then take a bigger cut around 1 minute before FC?

ShotClock (original poster)
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#36: Post by ShotClock (original poster) »

Also maybe interesting, the most baked was the Ethiopian natural, I had thought this would be the best...

pcofftenyo
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#37: Post by pcofftenyo »

You're getting there!

I am moving the opposite direction: from a high-powered, responsive gas roaster (Huky) to a high powered but less responsive Bullet. These transitions are tough and I've burned about 20 lb so far. Now am starting to get something passable.

A hint if I may would be to maybe not push so much energy early but stay on it a touch longer, retain those middle cuts, then maybe hold off on that last cut 5F or maybe 10F to eliminate that crash. With lively DP Africans I don't always run them as long to retain some of that acidity but I do manage the drop temp so they don't get ashy. They usually have enough sweetness to withstand a shorter roast, especially with a touch more energy.

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drgary
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#38: Post by drgary »

ShotClock wrote:Thanks for the tips.

Gary - you are quite perceptive, having tasted the roasts, they are all baked with extremely muted acidity. Do you have any ideas as to how I might keep the ET high while having a declining RoR? Probably the least baked was the first Yirg - the one that crashed. Maybe if I stay on the gas a little longer then take a bigger cut around 1 minute before FC?
I've been paying more attention to ET than BT ROR and was advised to not let ET decline. I tasted the difference and the ET decline yielded a roasty flavor where an apparent flick with steady ET did not.

H-B member Michael aka CarefreeBuzzBuzz pointed me to an article showing that too slow a BT ROR during 1C tastes baked. I compared that recommendation to my roasts and found it true.

As a separate but related matter, professional roaster Neal Wilson aka N3Roaster has comparatively tasted rising BT ROR on darker roasts versus steadily declining BT ROR. He and his class participants preferred the S-curve where BT ROR increased after 1C finished.

Does "Always Decelerate ROR and flicks" really matter?

A comment just above recommends fine tuning your temperature settings. I've also found it true that becoming consistent with a new roaster involves that sort of trial and error. No one can tell me exact settings for mine, especially since it's an unusually configured North TJ-067 1Kg with a perforated drum and powered by propane. I'm roasting and tasting and learning how to set my ET to get the best results, and it will take time to learn for different coffees. How quickly should I get to target ET? What gap do I want between end of roast target ET and end of roast target BT?
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

OldmatefromOZ

#39: Post by OldmatefromOZ »

Ive also found managing ET crucial to a well developed roast and some of what Neal Wilson has written has helped me along with William Boot, Anne Cooper and the Tim Wendelboe podcasts where he speaks with Morton Munchow from coffeemind.

I still think everything Rao has said to be true but its not particularly useful for smaller roasters (im using 1.5kg).

The 1:30 - 1:40 for start of yellow to start of brown (like golden orange smells like baked goods) mentioned by Neal definitely helps develop the balance of flavours I desire.

For a darker roast on small drum I would try the following.

4:00 to 300F (149 -150C) - starting to turn yellow.
1:30 to 1:40 later hitting start of the golden orange browning , for me this happens 165 - 166C.
From this point I really dont want to be making any gas adjustments until 1:00 - 40sec before first crack start (FCS at 8:15 - 8:30) and this adjustment is very small tweak to keep ROR in check (prevent plateau / crash) = maintain appropriate speed.

This final adjustment only dips my ET by 3 to 5C and levels off for the first 45sec to 1:00 into crack depending on how dark im going. From here im gently dialling back to final gas setting that delivers a mostly steady ROR with a very gradual decent over 3:30 for cusp of 2nd crack. ET meets BT right at drop.

Chasing ROR before mastering all the basics is a recipe for some seriously under developed and or baked roasts.

Listen to Tim Wendelboe podcast with Morton then listen to it 3 more times it will liberate you from the confines of ROR dogma.

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drgary
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#40: Post by drgary »

OldmatefromOZ wrote:This final adjustment only dips my ET by 3 to 5C and levels off for the first 45sec to 1:00 into crack depending on how dark im going. From here im gently dialling back to final gas setting that delivers a mostly steady ROR with a very gradual decent over 3:30 for cusp of 2nd crack. ET meets BT right at drop.
Do you mean it actually dips your ET or your ET ROR? I've not had good results dipping my ET but with much less experience than you.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!