New Ikawa Home Roaster - 100g capacity - Page 44

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
Team HB

#431: Post by ira »

So while the kapton tape is interesting I was thinking of winding a piece of bare 12ga copper around a cylinder and then screwing it in so it helped lift the very outside beans as they spun.


#432: Post by GDM528 »

mgrayson wrote:TI wonder if my probe is miscalibrated...
If you can convince another Pro100 owner to perform an empty-chamber run and record both inlet and ET, the difference between inlet and ET might reveal a malfunctioning probe. With my manually-installed thermocouple mounted low in the chamber, The temperature shift I see is about 40C.

FWIW, I typically don't hear any cracks until my inlet temps (Home unit) hit around 260C and the temp readings in the spinning beans reads over 210C - much higher than what others report with different roasters. But also FWIW, I've observed the exothermic shift in the roast up to 30 seconds before hearing so much as one crack, which reassures me the chemistry is happening regardless of what I hear (or don't hear).

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#433: Post by mgrayson »

Good point about the exothermic bump. 40 degrees sounds right, though. I guess I'll have to try a roast that looks like it won't hit FC and see what the EspressoVision meter says.


#434: Post by RyanP »

GDM528 wrote: FWIW, I typically don't hear any cracks until my inlet temps (Home unit) hit around 260C and the temp readings in the spinning beans reads over 210C - much higher than what others report with different roasters. .
Interesting. I typically hear FC start around 485F (inlet) on my roasts.


#435: Post by dale_cooper »

The used, but really never used pro50 has arrrrived...

I'm not sure if there's a pro specific thread or this has become a master thread for home and pro observations?

First off, I feel like I'm cheating on my bullet LOL. Honestly, the bullet is a really, really good product, and Aillio stands behind it. I'm a bit nervous at Ikawa's support of their products, and how they seem very disorganized as a company.

Love the pro case and the sheer fact that I could easily take this thing with me (not sure I'd ever do that). Similarly, setting up the roaster is effortless - exceptionally small footprint, and all in one design, with neat and tidy cleanup. I did 4 roasts, and as I was pondering later in the night, hmmm I wonder what would've happened if I adjusted this profile to go higher in end temp - I took the ikawa back out and did a roast at 11pm. I would NEVER do that on the bullet. This makes roasting with the ikawa "fun", and something I believe I"ll really enjoy.

Couple observations now that I've used it...

1. The pro app in practice - leaves ALOT to be desired. I can't zoom in on the graph? Seriously? After a roast, I can't edit to adjust first crack or dry? Most common roasting software allows for this, I'm not sure how this would be left off of a "pro" app.

2. Its odd to leave full control to the profile I send to the machine. This is such a different behavior for me - I haven't once done a playback roast on my bullet - always driving it myself. I did notice that you can manually end the roast at anytime, but you're basically drawing the profile and letting the machine do its thing - which is really cool in its own right, and something I've dreamed of a machine doing for years. But, this is why point #1 should be better.

3. Maybe its the 50g batch but man first crack is liiiight in sound. I got just a couple pops and that's it. I was nervous these profiles did not have enough development, but we'll see. I also had a tough time decide when to mark dry end. Are you guys doing that at a consistent, set temp? Seems the circulating bean mass was at a solid yellow for a while, so I really struggled to know when to mark it. On my bullet, i've usually marked dry end when I start to see a good bit of tan (yellow transitioned to light brown).

4. In isolation, the ikawa seems like a tool which will produce rapid learning as far as roasting. Draw a curve, the machine does it - brew it up, try a different approach - maybe you wasted 50 grams, who cares. Hell, I can try 9-10 different "concepts" and see how that translates to the bean in the cup, for every 1 concept I try in the bullet (I roast 450-500g in my bullet). As odd as it seems, the precision of the ikawa, and ability to experiment is almost more suited for someone learning about roasting and how profile adjustmenst affect a bean. I'm not sure theres another machine that can do this so effortlessly. Can I translate the same profile to my bullet? That remains to be seen. The challenge is roasting still seems so dependent on the machine and environmental factors, and obviously with other machines, you need to drive the machine, and sometimes, driving a roast, is like driving a boat. Over time my bullet roasts have gotten a bit darker tasting, and muddy at times. I'm thinking the ikawa could help me dial back in clean, light roasts again - that would be really cool.


#436: Post by sambuist »

great to see you took the plunge. im excited to see how the roasts turn out

Team HB

#437: Post by ira »

I find the only reasonable way to edit roasts is in the table view, otherwise you're just guessing about where the point is. You do need to use the graph if you want to add a point though. Yea, the app sucks, you can do what you need, but not one bit more.


#438: Post by Milligan »

The Pro package is really a stellar set up. The case is great and makes storing it stress free. No way my kids can damage it in that bombproof case. When I used my Pro100 more often, I'd have it set up and roasting about as fast as I can pull a shot of espresso out of a prewarmed machine. As a Pro user, Ikawa support has been excellent. I'm not sure if there is a difference between their Home and Pro support, but I've been connected directly to chat to the engineers before about my Pro.

The only wish I have for the hardware on the Ikawa in general is for cooling to be separate from roasting. The cooling process adds a lot of time especially when wanting to go through 5+ samples which would add 15-20mins to the total roast time.

As for software, I feel like there is still some work to be done featurewise and I ran into a few bugs. Nothing that breaks the experience for me or gets in the way of being productive.

Why did I go for the Pro100 over the Home? More set points was a big factor. Especially if you have something like a natural that you'd like to simulate a soak for. I'd preheat to a higher temp. Drop the temp down then slowly raise it and still have points to use at the end of the roast to taper off to my end point. The Home's set point limitation doesn't get in the way of a lot of coffees, but I wanted that granular control. I've had coffees where I'd use a few points to dip the curve where a coffee wants to rise at first crack. This simulates a gas cut which smooths the BT curve. Things like that are only possible with a lot of points to play with. Some coffees can be tricky and the OCD side of me wanted to play with those curves until they were perfect.

I truly think the Ikawa (both Home and Pro) are the ultimate enthusiast playground with the Pro having a bit more control and a better overall package (for substantially more.). I really like the 100g capacity because that is enough to have several V60 or shots to sample from.

As for Home vs Pro, it really comes down to how much granular control you want and if you'd be okay having that as a limitation. The Pro also offers open and closed loop fan control which I'm not sure if the Home offers. Then there is commercial vs consumer support, the case, and perhaps longer term support. But the cost is quite a bit more.

I don't have any regrets choosing the Pro over the Home. I know myself, if I ran into a roasting situation where a bit more control would be preferred then I'd great frustrated that I didn't have that. But that's just me. Everyone is different.


#439: Post by GDM528 »

dale_cooper wrote:The used, but really never used pro50 has arrrrived...
Congrats! You can now adjust your roast every 2-3 shots. Depending on your rate of consumption, that means you can try nearly 150 different roasts every year.

Ziplock bags (quart size) became my new best friend for managing lots of small batches. More than one way to deal with small batches, but this became my favorite: They're relatively cheap (Costco!), easy to write roasting notes on the bag, and you can push out all the excess air when sealing it up. The bags expand as the beans outgas, and the rate/volume of the expansion gives a quick visual indication of how the post-roast rest is progressing. The concentrated aroma immediately upon opening the bag after 24 hours (one or two whiffs and it's gone) has been training me to link the aroma to the specific roasting profile.

I made an under-cabinet bag hangar so I can arrange them in chronological order (OCD, much?) and see at a glance when it's time to replenish the queue. I can either consume them in order or assemble a blend on-the-fly from multiple bags. This cured my hang-ups over the small batch size - now it's an asset.

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#440: Post by Chert »

The concentrated aroma immediately upon opening the bag after 24 hours (one or two whiffs and it's gone) has been training me to link the aroma to the specific roasting profile.
Great quote. I think the pithy technical term is "bag hit". :D
LMWDP #198