Learning to roast in the Neapolitan style - Page 9

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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happycat

#81: Post by happycat »

OldmatefromOZ wrote:My approach is to charge as hot as possible with gas off, then hit it hard after 1 min to reach 150C at 4 min. At or just before 150C dip the gas really hard initiating a crash in ROR to 7 - 8C / min.

At 170 bump the gas up slightly so that ROR will be 9 - 10C / min by first crack start. Should give a robust first crack over about 1:30 with ROR dropping to around 6 - 5C / min during crack.

Then as you come out of first crack control the ROR so as to not let it "flick" in uncontrolled manner, but more of a steady rise back to 7 - 8C / min depending on where you want to finish.

So roughly 4min / 150C
4 - 5 min to first crack
3:30 - 4:30 finish depending on how far into 2nd crack.

This emulates alot of the traditional darker Italian roast flavours i have tasted over the years.

Close to what anotherjim discussed here back in 2015 Back to caramel bomb coffees
Thanks for sharing this detailed heuristic.

I did my best to run something like it a couple times tonight on an electric Quest.

I'll let them rest and if they are not bad, share the graphs and details. (a week to 9 days rest?)

I suffered a power reset during the first roast but fortunately it was at DE mark so it created a nice inflection point for me.

Thanks again, your relevant, clear effort was very appreciated!

Roasting was actually fun for the first time in years because I was trying something new.
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drgary (original poster)
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#82: Post by drgary (original poster) »

If you want to try something else new, you can sample that coffee right away by doing a Turkish brew.

How to prepare Turkish coffee
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

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Almico

#83: Post by Almico »

Tried this last roast at the bar as iced coffee this morning. Still pretty good with an utter lack of offensive flavors or roastiness, but also lacking any interesting flavors in general and it is definitely less sweet. I measured my normal roast against it on my little Brix meter and the darker coffee measured 1.0 while my typical roast measured 1.3.

The coffee is a pretty lively Brazil with lots of toffee, nuts and chocolate. This darker roasts loses the toffee and most of the nuts.


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drgary (original poster)
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#84: Post by drgary (original poster) »

Yes, that's with continually declining RoR.
Gary
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Almico

#85: Post by Almico » replying to drgary »

But at least it's not roasty, like you would get with a rising RoR. Been there, done that 100 times.

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drgary (original poster)
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#86: Post by drgary (original poster) »

Have you ever intentionally done the kind of roast that is being tried by me and others here? If so, please show us your results and give us your taste impressions. Your feedback will be valuable. If you don't try that and taste it you are only providing feedback about steadily declining RoR.
Gary
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Almico

#87: Post by Almico » replying to drgary »

What do you think would be achieved if I let the RoR rise instead of keeping it declining?

As you can see from this roast, I do not need to turn up the gas to speed up a roast to increase drop temp. I turned off the gas completely 2 full minutes before this roast ended. All I would need to do is not turn off the gas and the RoR would rise on it own. That has happened to a greater or lesser degree by mistake many times over the years. Every time the RoR goes up after 1C, the coffee suffers...to my taste. It takes on a roasty bite that is not pleasant and the main reason I used to put milk and sugar in my coffee years ago.


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drgary (original poster)
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#88: Post by drgary (original poster) »

Almico wrote:What do you think would be achieved if I let the RoR rise instead of keeping it declining?
More flavor complexity, more preservation of sweetness, per everything else that has been said earlier in the thread. You may not be willing to try that, which is okay by me.
Gary
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Almico

#89: Post by Almico »

One more time with feeling.

This is a roast I just did on the same Brazil. The only change I made was not to touch the heat after the pre-1C adjustment. I left it at 2"wc for the rest of the roast. This is the natural roast curve that most roasters probably followed before there was roasting software to actually "see" what was going on.



Compared to the other roast:



Both roasts were dropped at 431*F. The new roast got there faster post 1C and faster overall.

The first roast measured 42 Agtron whole bean and 42 ground.

The new roast measured 44 Agtron whole bean and 43 ground. Lower numbers equate to darker roast level.

This makes sense since the first roast took a bit more time to get to 431*F.

So the idea that roasting faster through 2C in order to roast the outside of the bean more without affecting the inside as much does not hold up. By the time a roast goes that hot, the whole bean is toasted.

So the only complexity of flavor is adding roastiness. No bueno para mi.

As far as sweetness: sweetness cannot be added by roasting longer. As sugars caramelize they get more bitter, not more sweet. What may happen is that the remaining sugars become more apparent because acidity and other flavors have gone up the chimney. Also, not an acceptable result for me.

I'll brew some of this new roast tomorrow, but I already know exactly what this tastes like. I'll also measure Brix for sugar content.

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drgary (original poster)
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#90: Post by drgary (original poster) »

Thanks for showing that profile, Alan. In my roaster it doesn't run away like that. Also I wasn't the only one on this thread who found that the coffee needed rest to overcome the initial bitterness and integrate into a very mellow shot. I've liked it best starting about 10 days post-roast but already it was quite improved 2-3 days out. If I can get it all the way to 2C with steadily declining RoR I'll post about it here. It would be a different green, though.
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!