Learning to roast in the Neapolitan style - Page 8

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
User avatar
happycat

#71: Post by happycat »

drgary wrote:9 days post-roast, this first attempt comes very close to the Saka Caffè Gran Bar Top Selection. In part it's due to the complexity of the Mysore Nuggets greens, and it also tells me the roast doesn't need to speak perfect Italian.

image

A couple of days ago I tried a Yemeni green that had gone past peak, so I'll post if it's any good.
Despite all of us in the peanut gallery, sounds like you pulled it off. Congrats.

Can you note where you changed power?

I'm curious about adapting for an electric Quest, which is challenged when it comes to quick power shifts. Yesterday I was playing with changing inflection points in BT to allow more post-1C development which is a necessary prereq.
LMWDP #603

User avatar
drgary (original poster)
Team HB

#72: Post by drgary (original poster) »

The power changes are noted in the profile if you just enlarge it and look at the green buttons along the curve. For an electric roaster like yours, I agree that you need to anticipate power changes because there's more of a lag. I used to have a Hottop. So I would follow the suggested profile of OldmatefromOZ. BTW I had posted the wrong curve and have the correct one there now. As you look at that odd profile and my many temperature adjustments, keep in mind that I'm roasting the last remnants of that green, so it's a charge weight between my usual small 350g load and my usual large 750g load, and I'm watching changes in BT RoR as I make gas adjustments on the fly. My roaster probably responds more quickly than something like a Quest, but other Quest owners may want to chime in.

Here's a link to where I apply the OldmatefromOZ profile as best I can.

Learning to roast in the Neapolitan style

And here's where he first describes it.

Learning to roast in the Neapolitan style
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

Flair Espresso: handcrafted espresso. cafe-quality shots, anytime, anywhere
Sponsored by Flair Espresso
User avatar
happycat

#73: Post by happycat »

Thanks. I reread his msg a few times and constructed a recipe to try. I'll give it a few goes and see what happens.
LMWDP #603

User avatar
Almico

#74: Post by Almico »

I had a little accident today and left a Brazil roast going a bit long. It climbed to 431*F, or 60* above 1C, but managed not to flick.

It only measures 42 Agtron so technically not even a "dark" roast yet, but it sure looks dark to me. I know that 2C starts at 418* so I was able to plug that in. Just guessing where 1Ce was.

I just brewed an Americano and it's not bad. Still some perceived sweetness. I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see if there is any roastiness. So far just a tinge, but it might rest out. It's a big chocolate comfort bomb. Probably great will milk and sugar. I'm going to brew some at the bar tomorrow as iced coffee and see what that does.

Takeaway: Nothing objectionable, but nothing exciting either. And I can easily get to 1C + 60* without having to add heat or let the RoR rise. Do I hear 1C + 70*?

BTW, 34% post 1C development might seem long, but only as it relates to the total roast time. If this was a 16 minute roast, the same 3:56 would be 25%.


Rickpatbrown

#75: Post by Rickpatbrown »

Almico wrote:I had a little accident today and left a Brazil roast going a bit long. It climbed to 431*F, or 60* above 1C, but managed not to flick.

It only measures 42 Agtron so technically not even a "dark" roast yet, but it sure looks dark to me. I know that 2C starts at 418* so I was able to plug that in. Just guessing where 1Ce was.

I just brewed an Americano and it's not bad. Still some perceived sweetness. I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see if there is any roastiness. So far just a tinge, but it might rest out. It's a big chocolate comfort bomb. Probably great will milk and sugar. I'm going to brew some at the bar tomorrow as iced coffee and see what that does.

Takeaway: Nothing objectionable, but nothing exciting either. And I can easily get to 1C + 60* without having to add heat or let the RoR rise. Do I hear 1C + 70*?

image
This is interesting. The profile is very close to a Rao slope. Based in MET, looks like a lot of heat energy left the roasting environment.

Do you have a general idea for what profile attributes or roast actions are connected to "roastiness"? I've been following this thread and wondering for along time how to roast dark to get those spicy, distillate notes, but not with the gross burnt roasty flavors.

User avatar
Almico

#76: Post by Almico » replying to Rickpatbrown »

To my palette, a sudden drop in RoR at 1C results in a loss of sweetness and dynamics in a roast. I call it the "hole in the donut" flavor profile. There is simply a hollowness to the cup. Roastiness, as I perceive, it happens when the RoR is allowed to rise suddenly after this false RoR drop ends and the coffee starts to "exotherm". Even a roast that does not crash is subject to unnecessary roasty notes if the RoR is allowed to rise.

I'm not sure what is meant by "spicy, distillate notes". I have a feeling it is more related to the green than the roast. This roast has none of that, even though it is roasted quite dark.

The first cup I brewed is cooling and getting smoother by the minute. It really is quite good. There is absolutely no bitterness whatsoever, and no acidity either. The lack of acidity is not surprising since this is a low-grown, low density Brazil, but I know this coffee very well and it usually has a pleasant bite to it. That bite is gone. We'll have to see what happens as the oils come to the surface as it ages. I am sensitive to rancid oils won't tolerate that "flavor" in my coffee.

User avatar
drgary (original poster)
Team HB

#77: Post by drgary (original poster) »

Alan,

Distillates happen when caramelization goes past dark fruit flavors. Spiciness would be a peppery flavor. What happens if you accelerate a roast of the same bean so it ends sooner? Are you willing to try that with a gently increasing RoR?
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

Decent Espresso: espresso equipment for serious baristas
Sponsored by Decent Espresso
User avatar
happycat

#78: Post by happycat » replying to drgary »

There is a flavour lexicon from World Coffee Research

https://worldcoffeeresearch.org/media/d ... on_2-0.pdf

There are two references to distillates there

"ALCOHOL
A colorless, pungent, chemical-like aromatic associated with distilled spirits or grain products.
REFERENCE INTENSITY PREPARATION
Absolut Vodka (80 Proof) Aroma: 5.0 Dilute 16 milliliters of vodka with 64 milliliters of water. Serve in a large snifter. Cover."

"WHISKEY
The aromatic associated with distilled products from fermented grain mash.
REFERENCE INTENSITY PREPARATION
Jack Daniel's Tennessee Whiskey Aroma: 5.5 Serve 1⁄2 cup whiskey in a large snifter. Cover."

There is also a section on spices that highlights specific spices.

The lexicon was designed to allow people to describe their coffee experience with operational references. It's a "boundary object" that serves to bridge gaps in understanding and experience.

For instance, a "Neapolitan style" could be defined in terms of a set of flavour experiences from the lexicon, including an immediate experience, and the progression of the experience in drinking the cup.
LMWDP #603

User avatar
drgary (original poster)
Team HB

#79: Post by drgary (original poster) »

I am thinking of a flavor that tastes like dark rum. :wink:
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

User avatar
happycat

#80: Post by happycat » replying to drgary »

Ah, got it!
LMWDP #603