Learning to roast in the Neapolitan style - Page 14

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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happycat

#131: Post by happycat »

drgary wrote:I was shocked at how much I like the Saka decaf, which is 50% robusta. It creates more flavor in the blend and is wonderfully creamy. So, I think it's worth trying on its own merit.
Robusta decaf.. wow. Does the decaf process affect the taste?
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drgary (original poster)
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#132: Post by drgary (original poster) »

Many Italian blends have robusta as an essential component. I can't tolerate caffeinated robusta. At least the way I brew it, which is at lower temperature and at the margin between ristretto and normale, I taste a very good espresso. It doesn't taste papery or astringent, which can be signal decaf to my palate.
Gary
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Rickpatbrown

#133: Post by Rickpatbrown »

I just got some Saka Gran Bar and Top Select from the group buy. I finally have a reference for what you guys are talking about. I've only pulled two shots of the Gran Bar. The first, normale, was pretty gross. Roasty and bitter. I down dosed, used lower temp and stopped at ristretto and it was much better. Still not great, but I wanted to finish it. Definitely better than any of the garbage dark roasts I've ever done.

I'm shocked, though at the defects. Tipping, scorching and facing. Are these defects or acceptable in this style? Is Saka a high quality, desirable coffee (it's pretty cheap, compared to third wave specialty stuff like George Howell).

[img]userpix/38258_20210919_214711_hb4428FV.jpg[/img]

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drgary (original poster)
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#134: Post by drgary (original poster) »

Rick,

Thanks for posting that. Added: For a long time we've been pushing the limits on light roasts on Home-Barista. This thread goes the other direction, exploring a darker roasting style. I inspected my Saka Gran Bar Top Selection and found the tipping you did and the cratering. I do not see scorching. But we're looking at different batches and I'm inspecting Top Selection compared to your Gran Bar. Jim Schulman noted in a thread on roasting defects that cratering, aka divots, is not considered a roast defect when the roast level goes into a rolling second crack. Henry Chang writes that tipping occurs with a high roast temperature or when drum rotation is too slow. I wonder if these high heat changes are considered normal at that dark a roast, something we aren't used to trying here? As I've written elsewhere, I'm enjoying this coffee in my rotation by pulling it very cool and ristretto. It's especially good in milk drinks, where it imparts a dark chocolate and rum/anise flavor with an edge of bitterness that cuts through the milk (in our home we use Oatley Oat Milk Barista Blend.)

Coffee Roasting Defects Pictorial

I haven't yet taken my own roasts into rolling 2C but might see similar changes -- and more closely emulate what Saka does by taking a roast into rolling 2C. Here are comparative photos after letting my examples come to room temperature from freezing of Saka Top Selection and my attempt at roasting a Yemen Moca Hawari into the first 10 sec of 2C.

This is the Saka. There were shells in both greens.



And the Yemen. I picked out three quakers and one bean shows scorching, but Yemens are typically very irregular. It's challenging to compare a different bean selection. The Saka is more intense in a way that I like. And I remember it being sweeter. I'll update this post after comparing them. Update: I didn't get a great pull of the Saka, running it too slow and not pulling it right out of the freezer and drinking it a couple of hours after defrosting. (Whenever I open an Italian coffee I put it right into the freezer to avoid staling.) Compared to the Yemen, the Saka was a bit smoother and somewhat bitter. It was fruity when I added a touch of sugar as is often done with these coffees. It had an aftertaste of dark chocolate and incense, but I think that this shot was a bit off.

Here's my earlier post on the best pull I've had of Top Selection:
drgary wrote:I had another delicious shot of Saka Caffe Gran Bar Top Selection this morning on my Cremina, using a Niche Zero grinder. The brew ratio was 17 gm in, 30 gm out. I like this blend the most when I pull it cool, which emphasizes the chocolate/hazelnut/orange sweetness of this coffee, which is wonderfully sweet without adding sugar. Mouthfeel was buttery thick. There's a long aftertaste of chocolate and almond. My probe is located near the back of the group, above the crease, and the start temperature was 185°F. In contrast, if I'm pulling a medium roast where about 202°F is an ideal brew temperature, my starting temperature on the outside of the group is 195°F, so I'm pulling this coffee about 10°F cooler. I will definitely be wanting more if anyone does a group buy. Yum!
When I tried it, I slightly preferred the Gran Bar's taste. It has 20% Robusta and I tasted more anisette. Also it had a creamier mouthfeel. Unfortunately, I don't tolerate Robusta unless it's decaffeinated.

I did get the best pull yet of the Yemen by accident, practically choking the machine and having a shot that lasted more than a minute. The Yemen showed more origin flavors of fig that also had slight astringency and a long aftertaste of very dark chocolate and leather.



Added: Here's the roast profile of the Yemen, trying to follow the suggested S curve style with an odd-sized batch and an aging green. It came out better than expected. A general rule is to do far fewer gas adjustments than this, which is typical when roasting a little-known coffee to a new profile, yet I wonder whether the slight adjustments change the application of heat much when you've got a roaster like mine that holds a lot of retained heat.* A soft crash during 1C reduced its sweetness.



* An expert roaster suggested that I use a steady ET to guide the roast rather than carefully watching ROR and making many adjustments. It's an ongoing learning process.
Gary
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drgary (original poster)
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#135: Post by drgary (original poster) »

@Rickpatbrown: I just dialed in on the Cremina and pulled a shot like the one noted on my Prestina. Smooth and sweet bittersweet chocolate fudge with creamy mouthfeel. That's what this coffee's about. Brew ratio was about 1:2 with it updosed to 15.5 gm in (basket capacity) and 1 full lever pull = about 30g out. My start temperature was cool but hotter than earlier at 171F on outside of group. It needed no sugar. Added: I increased start temp by 4F, which decreased sweetness and increased bitterness, so dialing in reduced brew temp is key.

OK, back to learning how to roast for that result.
Gary
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Rickpatbrown

#136: Post by Rickpatbrown »

drgary wrote:@Rickpatbrown: I just dialed in on the Cremina and pulled a shot like the one noted on my Prestina. Smooth and sweet bittersweet chocolate fudge with creamy mouthfeel. That's what this coffee's about. Brew ratio was about 1:2 with it updosed to 15.5 gm in (basket capacity) and 1 full lever pull = about 30g out. My start temperature was cool but hotter than earlier at 171F on outside of group. It needed no sugar.

OK, back to learning how to roast for that result.
Hmm ... maybe I need the Europiccola to handle this. I'm using a HX Livia 90s and it might be hard to get it cool enough without tinkering with the pressure stat.

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drgary (original poster)
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#137: Post by drgary (original poster) »

See my update just now. If yours is a dragon HX that cools when flushing, flush until you don't hear any sizzle. I can pull this really well with my OE Coffex/Maximatic.
Gary
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