^^^^^good question. A machine capable of roasting small batches in under 5-6 minutes where small is relative. I suppose if a person had a 5 kilo roaster small would be 1 pound.

The pictures I've seen of small barrel roasters lined up in a row roast 50-100g at a time.

OK, I've been roasting 100-149g at a time. I only go smaller if it's the end of the bag, but sometimes I simply divide the remaining contents of the bag in two batches, to mitigate issues re: having an unusually long roast (due to an uber small batch size).

Jeff

Thanks for the informative reply - really gave me some ideas. I apprecaite the link to Sweet Maria's thermocouplers as my next move is to upgrade my temperature reading capabilities...the dial kitchen thermometer drilled in the side of the P1 just aint cutting it as far as accuracy.

This will be short as I am hitting the road tomorrow and Friday..so if I don't respond to all of your post, hopefully I will catch when I get back.

Batch size..I am roasting at the top end of the P1's capabilities using normal or peaberry size beans. For larger beans like Marigogype and Pacamara beans, I go closer to 7oz. I notice you mention using a wooden spoon...since many of them are rather thick, I wonder if you loose some space to the spoon itself. I use a metal spoon but have to use a folded towel as it heats up during the roast. i also wonder if some of the browning in my roast chamber is from the metal spoon reflecting heat??? Not sure but will be on the look out ofr a very thin wooden spoon since it would be nice not to have a hot spoon to contend with during each roast.

I am impressed with your chaff collection methodology. You put me to shame really as I just let the chaff fly everywhere without the butter or top on...and just clean up afterwards. Despite my best efforts some of the chaff escapes...and my husband finds it behind the kitchen sink (near the roaster) or else in my hair a few hours after roasting. Since I have horses...chaff is not out of place since I might have a few strands of grass hay in my hair as well I do at some later date want to address the chaff dispersal choas...so might try your method in the interim.

Temperature ...I probably wasn't clear on my roasting temps first crack versus maximum temps. I hit first crack between 375-400 F...my highest roast temps usually are in the 435-445 range -although with my new P1 and its much strongeer fan, I find that I have to raise my highest temp to 445-450. Usually during 1st crack *around 7-7:15 minutes) I let the temps continue to climb - hitting 425 F at the 8 minute mark and 435-445 F temp at around 8:20-8:30 staying there for about 10-12 seconds then cooling back down to 425 F by 9 minutes, going down to 415-420 at the end of the roast at 9:30 minutes.

I would love hear about your data gathering upgrades using the P1 as I don't know anyone who yses Artisan or other programs on a popper

Reaching 1st Crack at 8 minutes is tad late for most of my roasts (I hit it around 7-7:15pm)...except maybe some Indonesians that I am roasting closer to Full City. Having said hat,let your palate be your guide. Maybe try doing a roast using the same coffee reaching First Crack at 7 minutes for comparison's sake and see roast which one you prefer.

I will post when I get back. Thanks for your detailed response...now I am inspired to upgrade my humble Pi in many regards as well as continue to develope my roasts.

regards
your fellow P1 pal (great moniker)
Mary

Chert wrote:I want a sample roaster for 50-100 g batches. But 4 figures is what one must pay for the off the shelf monitored and controlled ones. Where's the tinkerer fun in that? So I will modify a popper. (But I must choose a new-to-me popper - my two burned up in 2003 during my early days of coffee roasting.) Are the options for that well established in home roasters forum? I will go the microcontroller route so I can control air, heat and monitor the roast via artisan. Have you considered making those type mods as a dedicated 'airhead'?

[edit: I see the original poster has some good points to glean in this thread alone - need to read more before posting]

I am considering upgrading so I can moniter and gather roast data via Artisan and upgrading temp monitering via thermocoupler route. As for microcontrollers, I only have expierencing cooking sous vide at home, using an Auber PID and a rice cooker. Unlike sous vide cooking, I enjoy having full manuel control of my coffee roasting..so not really looking for preset programs for roasting.....but would like the data gathering capabilities to better develope roasting profiles for specific beans/origins. Hope that makes sense...like I don't necesarily want to develope a bunch of preset programs where i just hit 'program 1' and leave the roaster alone to roast on auto play so to speak..but would love to have a way of monitering and gathering roast data to be used later to refine my roasts.

I wold love to hear what you end up doing especialy since there are a few other airheads out there considering taking a similar route using Artisan.

I am impressed that you burned out a few poppers in your earlier days. I have decided that the early roasting expierences either fall in the immolation camp or the underroasted one. My early efforts fell in the latter camp with some truly wretched under developed hit 1st crack in 3-4 minutes camp. Maybe a burned roasts would have a been a good thing as those first raw roasts almost inspired me to throw in the towel. My sister was a great source of inspiration during those early roasts by declaring that they tsated like Folger's...but at least they tasted like coffee...and not something else I have yet to burn out a popper but I do struggle with roast coffee oils slowly accumulating in the Poppery 1 chamber over the years and eventually resulting in higher roast chamber temps and also decreased air circulation. I have tried cleaing the chamber after each orast using a standard coffee roaster cleaner but to not much avail. Maybe I should just use oven off instead? Again this is a gradual problem but after a few years of heavy roasting the accumulatnng 'brown coating' seems to change the roast thermodynamics, and ewentually the air circulation.

Always great to here from fellow airheads....please continue to share your experiences as I find them inspiring..keepnig me from becoming too complacent in my roasts and equipment.

Mary

mpdeem wrote: This will be short as I am hitting the road tomorrow and Friday..so if I don't respond to all of your post, hopefully I will catch when I get back.

No worries...although I must admit I was eagerly awaiting your response.

mpdeem wrote: Batch size..I am roasting at the top end of the P1's capabilities using normal or peaberry size beans. For larger beans like Marigogype and Pacamara beans, I go closer to 7oz. I notice you mention using a wooden spoon...since many of them are rather thick, I wonder if you loose some space to the spoon itself. I use a metal spoon but have to use a folded towel as it heats up during the roast. i also wonder if some of the browning in my roast chamber is from the metal spoon reflecting heat??? Not sure but will be on the look out ofr a very thin wooden spoon since it would be nice not to have a hot spoon to contend with during each roast.

Good point, as I do lose some space to the spoon itself although I've rarely been using the spoon. I suppose that's part of the reason I haven't gone to larger than 5.25oz batch sizes. My chamber has also encountered some browning but I can't say there is really much oil residue built up inside (I brought it in from the garage tonight and did a little cleaning).

mpdeem wrote: I am impressed with your chaff collection methodology. You put me to shame really as I just let the chaff fly everywhere without the butter or top on...and just clean up afterwards. Despite my best efforts some of the chaff escapes...and my husband finds it behind the kitchen sink (near the roaster) or else in my hair a few hours after roasting. Since I have horses...chaff is not out of place since I might have a few strands of grass hay in my hair as well I do at some later date want to address the chaff dispersal choas...so might try your method in the interim.

Hah - chaff in your hair! Too funny...but certainly not surprising! Ahh, that's cool that you have horses too. I can see why you say the chaff just kinda 'fits in'. Yes, it's very straight forward and simple approach to collection and the chaff really sticks to the moist paper towel. Go for it!

mpdeem wrote: Temperature ...I probably wasn't clear on my roasting temps first crack versus maximum temps. I hit first crack between 375-400 F...my highest roast temps usually are in the 435-445 range -although with my new P1 and its much strongeer fan, I find that I have to raise my highest temp to 445-450. Usually during 1st crack *around 7-7:15 minutes) I let the temps continue to climb - hitting 425 F at the 8 minute mark and 435-445 F temp at around 8:20-8:30 staying there for about 10-12 seconds then cooling back down to 425 F by 9 minutes, going down to 415-420 at the end of the roast at 9:30 minutes.

Thanks

mpdeem wrote: I would love hear about your data gathering upgrades using the P1 as I don't know anyone who yses Artisan or other programs on a popper

I haven't pulled the trigger yet but will keep you posted!

mpdeem wrote: Reaching 1st Crack at 8 minutes is tad late for most of my roasts (I hit it around 7-7:15pm)...except maybe some Indonesians that I am roasting closer to Full City. Having said hat,let your palate be your guide. Maybe try doing a roast using the same coffee reaching First Crack at 7 minutes for comparison's sake and see roast which one you prefer.

That 8 minute 1C batch of mine was, as suspected and mentioned, a bit too late. Basically an anomaly. All my subsequent roasts have seen 1C at the following times: 7:15, 6:55, 6:06, & 6:49. As you suggested, I will certainly let my palate be the judge.

mpdeem wrote: I will post when I get back. Thanks for your detailed response...now I am inspired to upgrade my humble Pi in many regards as well as continue to develope my roasts.

You inspire me, I inspire you, we inspire others...let's keep the circle going!

mpdeem wrote: regards
your fellow P1 pal (great moniker)
Mary

Cheers!

Jeff

A quick post as I just back this evening.

Please share your impressions of your roasts - especially regarding differences (if any) associated with different 1t Crack times.

For example, I did two batches of Roastmaster's Guatemala El Socorro Laurina - one hitting 1st Crack at my standard 7 minutes, the second batch 1st Crack at 7:45. Both batches were slightly extended ending at 10 minutes instead of my standard 9:30 minutes. I found the first batch wtih an earlier 1st Crack roast swas more delicate and light brewing but with slightly brighter notes of almond, biscotti, and only faint coco notes. The second slightly later 1st crack batch had slightly deeper fwith more developed dark chocolate notes plus a slightly creamy feeling and brewing slightly stronger -however i missed the almond and biscotti brighter notes. I will re taste both batches but i suspect in the long run I will probably end up blending the two roasts since both have wonderful attributes -and combined they will complement each other well.

Amazing what delaying 1st crack by a mere 30-45 seconds does. Again this really varies by the individual coffee....espeicaly as the Laurina seems to posses a more delicate profile. I have found even more contraste in Kenyan coffee when either delaying 1st crack or extending the roast post 1st crack does. Some Kenyans for example, go from bright grapefruit, cranberry to darker flame grape winey wild flavors just by exnteding the roast post 1st crack by another minute. Other coffees just go flat with too much delaying or adding time...like Gesha's seem to do better staying lighter and with a normal shorter 1st Crack. This is not even adding on the extra dimension of different roaster types....gas-drum or hybrid fluid bed roasters.

I would to try a group roast off...maybe among us airheads at first...using air poppers..just to see the variation in resulting roasts. I remember in the old Home Roasters forums - some members would exchanges roasts just for fun - and most of us were using very different typs of roasters. I remember one friend had a standard Behmor type roaster while another guy roasted his beans in a cast iron skillet (with excellent results...not a tipped bean in his roasts)....so maybe we should just open roasts up to any interested parties no matter their roaster type. All done in the spirit of learning rather than competition. I would love to taste what flavors people are getting out of the same beans that I am roasting. So something to consider for the future if you are interested

For example I am trying to improve my decaf skills and just bought in some of the Ethiopia Decaf Crown Jewel from Royal that is being offered on the coffee exchange thread. If you have any decaf roasting tips for me please share..and of course I would love to taste other air heads decaf roasts...so I would be happy to send you a decaf to roast ...to serve as a template for me to learn on. Literally I have shied away from trying decafs because my few efforts for the most part, were boring and all taste similar, malty carob cereal...and just boring. So if you have any decaf roasting tips advice for a fellow airhead...feel free to share. Gary started a Decaf thread so feel free to share advice there...i need all the help I can get.

Thanks for your post. It really is inspiring to talk to fellow airheads...again helps me not get too complacent with my roasts...and to keep growing and developing my skills (or lack thereof).

Mary

Hi Mary,

I will certainly share my impressions of the delayed 1C roasts, as the first one is on deck to be ground next.

I still have a lot to learn and need to further develop my palate to discern such particular flavors. Further, I should really experiment with one coffee rather than occasionally moving from bean to bean. Also, I originally thought it was during the DEV phase in which the roaster had the most influence on the beans' tastes, but thanks to you, I know the time to 1C also has significant impact.

Yes, I'd be up for a future 'roast off', or bean trade once I feel more confident. Speaking of which, I have zero experience roasting decaf beans.

I agree having this dialogue helps keep us motivated and interested, and I'm sure we'll continue to learn not only from each other, but from other 'airheads' and this wonderful community!

Jeff

I think that your impression of the roaster being infliential during the DEV phase is correct...as well as during the 1st Crack phase-timing. To be honest it seems to me that the roaster is quite influencial throughout the entire roast...from initial charging temperature to how long post 1st crack into 2nd crack. I am certain that more expierenced roaster could give a better idea of degree of influence and other particulars of course

You are wise to stick with mainly one coffee to better observer changes in roast profile. When I first started, I went with a lot of different beans...so it took me a while to find some favorite beans and roast them enough times to notice the influences of roast profile changes and refinmenets. Had I to do it over, I would have stuck with only a few coffees...roasting them repeatedly to better obersve and learn from. Of course I was like a kid in a candy store, ordering all these different coffees before I even really knew how to roast...or had even developed any odea of what flavors and other characteristics I would even like. I started out liking nutty chocolatey Central American coffees and earthy Sumatra coffees..but overtime expanded and even moved away from the former. Funny how tastes change over time...and then change again as finally after all these years I am starting to get a hankering for some chocolately nutty Central American coffees ...although not desiring them exclusively as I did in those early years.

Here's my new to me 'popcorn pumper'.

I have a microcontroller set up to control an element and dc fan, but this unit has AC fan. So my first step is to disable the element and check the agitation of coffee at 50 and 100 g dose for normal fan speed.

As they point out at Sweet Maria's, it's best to have the base closed so the unit lasts longer. I has just a steel mesh between the roasting and the element in the 2003 one. I think that's why it didn't last long.

Chert wrote:Here's my new to me 'popcorn pumper'.
As they point out at Sweet Maria's, it's best to have the base closed so the unit lasts longer. I has just a steel mesh between the roasting and the element in the 2003 one. I think that's why it didn't last long.

Chert

Lovely popper. Thanks for the close ups of the wiring and roast chamber. I recall the Wear-Ever Pumper being a popular model among 'air-heads' but have never had opportunity to try one. I would love to see how you integrate the PID as I am considering using one with my Poppery in the future.

I confess to being rather jealous of the low price you paid for your popper. My cost to replace my Popper 1 was quite a bit more since most e-bay sellers have discovered the P1'a popularity among coffee roaster and priced accordingly. One time I did score a free P1 when my sister's co worker re homed her barely used P!...but otherwise I am often reduced to paying the going rate for a used P1. Great find...look forward to hearing more about your mods and roasts.