I've been fascinated lately by Italian coffee, the mass market stuff we can buy here like Massimo, Essse, Attibassi. These coffees really can deliver some amazing comfort food espresso with nuts, chocolate and touch of fruits. At their best this some really good stuff. And its highly surprising.

Based on price alone, they are not using any high-grade coffee. 10% Robusta really can't make all the difference, I tried. These are usually blends of Brazilian, Centrals, Indian and Ethiopian coffees.

But they all have very specific taste, my wife is joking is that Italians are adding flavoring to their coffee I would not put it past these old foxes!

Anyway, I've been trying to crack these roasts and blends and nothing is working. I have tried simple blends with 10% of high quality robusta and without. Short roasts at 12 minutes and long ones of 16 minutes. Going to FC or let second crack roll... Long and short development. Long and short drying. Long 300F to first crack... I just can't crack how to get this taste profile. The coffee I roast does not taste bad but its not what I am looking for and what their coffee tastes like.

Anybody can shed the light on how these Italian blends are roasted? What are their roast times and profiles?

Are you using beans that have sat in a bag a few weeks or months? That seems to be mostly what is available and if used fairly promptly after opening the bags crema and good flavors can be produced. Is that one explanation for your difficulty?

Do you find that US italian style roasters like from Seattle (Caffe d'Arte or Umbria) or San Francisco (Mr Espresso?) deliver the taste you are after? Theirs are available fresher.

Yes Italian blends are best as soon as opened and hold for about day or max two then fall off rapidly. Frozen they work well. I had fairly fresh Italian roasts too, Attibassi for example, I had only 3 weeks post roast and it was outstanding.

Caffe d'Arte and Umbria are not close to these taste wise. Mr Espresso is even farther away...

Probably 10 or 15 years ago I read a big article on illy coffee and they said they do not take their beans into the second crack. Which they also said, over 18 minutes was too long for an espresso extraction. I looked and didn't find that now but this is how they say they do it on their website.

illy blends nine distinct Arabica beans before roasting, assuring each bean's distinct characteristics develop at the same rate under the roaster's heat. This is precisely how illy achieves remarkable consistency in its blend, can after can.

Blending is truly an art. Coffees from different origins carry distinct aromas, and varying balances of bitter, sweet and body characteristics. Nothing less than mastery is required to create a harmonious whole.

Coffee harvests vary year to year, producing different characteristics even in the same bean, so a rigid formula cannot be followed during blending. Understanding how each of the nine beans interacts, and the role each plays is required. Otherwise said, illy achieves consistency by understanding and embracing diversity, paradoxical as it may sound. The same result, through different means.
Roasting is coffee's version of high drama: 15 minutes, the critical time when some 800 substances emerge under heat, each contributing to the taste and aroma of the illy blend-and to its very heritage.

In a large rotating drum, the coffee is brought to about 200°C (392°F), at first drying the beans, turning them golden in color and creating toasted aromas.

As roasting continues, the bean's volume increases by 60 percent, and they begin to turn a light brown.

During stage three, beans acquire their familiar rich, brown color, losing about 18% of their weight and becoming brittle.

The process must end at precisely the right time. Over-roasting destroys essential, volatile aromatic compounds and upsets the ideal balance of acidity and bitterness.

ds wrote:Yes Italian blends are best as soon as opened and hold for about day or max two then fall off rapidly. Frozen they work well. I had fairly fresh Italian roasts too, Attibassi for example, I had only 3 weeks post roast and it was outstanding.

Caffe d'Arte and Umbria are not close to these taste wise. Mr Espresso is even farther away...

I've not tried Attibassi. Where do you source that?

Think the TS is asking for advice on a roast profile NOT on which roasted beans he should buy....
So far I only did a few dark roasts, and haven't gone through huge amounts of greens but I think I've learned that blending only works post roast.

What are the flavors you're after in your Italian blend? Perhaos someone can guide you a bit better if you share that info as I've drank plenty and many were quite different...if there is one common denominator of commercial Italian blends I'd say that they are stale and only taste of roast and have lost their unique aspects. I had some great espresso in Italy, but most of it was made from stale beans way past their roast date.

ds wrote:I've been fascinated lately by Italian coffee, the mass market stuff we can buy here like Massimo, Essse, Attibassi. These coffees really can deliver some amazing comfort food espresso with nuts, chocolate and touch of fruits. At their best this some really good stuff. And its highly surprising...

Anybody can shed the light on how these Italian blends are roasted? What are their roast times and profiles?

Marcelnl wrote:Think the TS is asking for advice on a roast profile NOT on which roasted beans he should buy....
So far I only did a few dark roasts, and haven't gone through huge amounts of greens but I think I've learned that blending only works post roast.

What are the flavors you're after in your Italian blend? Perhaos someone can guide you a bit better if you share that info as I've drank plenty and many were quite different...if there is one common denominator of commercial Italian blends I'd say that they are stale and only taste of roast and have lost their unique aspects. I had some great espresso in Italy, but most of it was made from stale beans way past their roast date.

I think ds is after "like Massimo, Essse, Attibassi... comfort food espresso with nuts, chocolate and touch of fruit." Marcelni, you seem to agree that stale beans are possibly part of the desirable flavors of espresso in Italy.

Robusta apparently tastes better after it has staled, I'll have to find it but I remember reading another thread where they discussed roasting robusta to have particular desired flavors as a stale coffee, and then using that blended with arabica coffees.

Not really, but I know from experience that even a stale bean can make for a decent espresso that I can enjoy even if I know it could be stellar of fresh roasted beans woukd have been used...
Likewise, I have had horrible espresso made with fresh roasted beans in what probably was a good blend or even SO.

It's hardly a roadmap to recreating the coffee, but the following quote from the Attibassi website, description of Crema d'Oro, suggests a blend and a roast style:

An extraordinarily balanced blend made from carefully selected coffee beans. Arabica beans from Brazil bring a sweet, rich taste, whilst those from Central America and Ethiopia enrich it with particularly flowery, aromatic notes. Lastly, small quantities of select Robusta beans complete the fullness of the blend, giving 'body'. These characteristics are enhanced by skilful, slow, gradual roasting to create a coffee fit for connoisseurs.