Ikawa Roaster Thoughts/Recommendations - Page 4

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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Cafillo

#31: Post by Cafillo »

Ah. You know them all. Or listed them all.

Small footprint
Easy to travel (for Cuppings)
No exhaust tube needed (I don't know for 100g Ikawa)
Works unter exhaust hood in the kitchen
Pro Version great to evaulate beans before roast them on big roastmachine (you only need to know how to adapt parameters)
A lot of functions on Pro App. Easy to use. Good usability.
Sharing profiles works good (not sure about difference in altitude)
Big online library (even some are for cuppings)
Great results for Home Roasters
Easy ro clean


Hence I do not know Ikawa Home I cannot give any statements about it. I also did never use V3.

pixmap

#32: Post by pixmap »

I am looking at getting a roaster. I like the Spider M2 but the Ikawa is more what I think I want...

I'm starting to get the difference between home and Pro V3 but does anyone know the price difference between them? US dollar please.

I also thought the Sandbox was a neat concept just reading different reviews on how good the roast is... Many thanks for your help.

Enjoy,
Ron

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Sponsored by ECM Manufacture
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ducats

#33: Post by ducats »

According to an IKAWA Sales Team email I got yesterday...
ProV3 is $4,270
Pro100 is $5,270
This literature they sent was aimed at a USA costumer, and the quoted prices included shipping and duties. Take that at your own risk.
And from ikawacoffee.com the Home model is roughly $1,3489 when converted to USD.

I've got a question: How does the Ikawa do in handling roasts longer than 6 or 7 minutes? I gather most "profiles" are of the shorter variety.
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mathof

#34: Post by mathof »

ducats wrote:According to an IKAWA Sales Team email I got yesterday...
I've got a question: How does the Ikawa do in handling roasts longer than 6 or 7 minutes? I gather most "profiles" are of the shorter variety.
At least one of the Ikawa recommended espresso roasts for the Home model runs 10 min 24 sec. It produces a medium to medium-dark result, depending on the bean and how I modify it.

pixmap

#35: Post by pixmap »

Wow that kind of money would buy an awesome gas fired roaster for the workshop!!!!

The home is much much cheaper and I wonder how it stacks up against like priced roasters for overall performance. Hoptop, or other $2000 or below roasters.

I have to say... this roaster selection process is not easy. Gas versus electric, large or small roast size, chaff, venting, software driven or not.... ahhhhh..

I wish there was a ranking or somthing. I personally like the sandbox but something about it feels like a gimmick...

My budget is 2500 or down and I would like hook up Artisans software or something like that as there is lots of fun working with data...

Still interested in the home but now I wonder how good the roast is on the Sandbox.

ira
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#36: Post by ira »

The Ikawa is a very special roaster, if it's what you want, it and possibly a Roest are the only choices, sounds like you're not in the target market.

Ira

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Peppersass
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#37: Post by Peppersass »

pixmap wrote: The home is much much cheaper and I wonder how it stacks up against like priced roasters for overall performance. Hoptop, or other $2000 or below roasters.
I'd say comparing the Ikawa Home to popular sub-$2,000 home roasters is like comparing apples and oranges. The approach, features, benefits and limitations are totally different. The Home is much quicker and easier to use, is simpler to vent, is less prone to operator mistakes/frustration, and is more likely to produce repeatable results. But these benefits come at the cost of a much smaller batch size, less precise control over the profile, and I suspect more guesswork when it comes to adjusting a roast.

It might be helpful to take a look at why the Pro models are so much more expensive than the Home model:

1. The Home has only an inlet air temperature probe. Pro models have inlet and exhaust temperature probes. On the Home you can control the roast by setting the air inlet temperature and fan speed at various points in the roast, but you can't set the target bean temperature (or even know what it is.) Hence, the profile is really the input heat curve. The Pro models use exhaust temperature as an approximation of bean temperature (bean temperature is an approximation roasters with probes in the bean mass, too.) You can set the targets for exhaust temperature and fan speed at any point in the roast, allowing you to create a bean temperature profile similar to what you would use in a roaster with a bean temperature probe. I assume this makes it easier (or possible) to map sample roasts to production roasts. Also, I suspect that controlling the roast via exhaust temperature makes for more consistent results.

2. The Pro app can calculate and display RoR. It also lets you mark Dry End (aka, Color Change), 1Cs and 2Cs, and if you mark 1Cs it will display %DTR and DT for the rest of the roast.

3. The Pro comes in a Pelican case for traveling with the roaster.

4. I think there may be differences in the availability of support services between the Home and Pro models, but I haven't dug in to that (I *think* you can get annual servicing for the Pro models.)

Given the feature differences, I expected the Pro V3 to be about twice as expensive as the Home, and would have paid that without hesitation. But it's more than three times as expensive. The Pro 100 is four times more. That made buying the Pro V3 a much bigger leap of faith for me.

Near as I can tell, the Home and Pro models are built on the same hardware platform. The extra probe probably doesn't cost the manufacturer more than $50-$100, plus perhaps some changes to the CPU board to support a second probe, which might translate to a $200-$400 higher retail price. The extra programming to support targeting the exhaust temperature profile, calculating and displaying RoR, marking events, etc., aren't without substantial cost. Hard to say what amortizing a reasonable (4x) multiple of that costs would be, but let's say it adds $1,000 to the retail price of each roaster. That's still more like 2x than 3x. The extra $1000 for the Pro 100 makes sense -- additional R&D expense, tooling expense, material/labor expense, etc. So, in my book $2,500-$3,000 for the Pro V3 and $3,500-$4,000 for the Pro 100 makes more sense.

I think the Pro prices are over $1,000 higher than that because the Pro versions have very high value for the target professional market, and those users must have the Pro features, even though they're basically just a second probe, additional software capabilities, and a really nice case. Also, the Pro model prices compare favorably with larger gas-powered sample roasters, which have higher installation and operating costs, require much more skill to operate, can't utilize profiles from a variety of greens suppliers, may not be as consistent, require a lot more attention, and aren't as flexible (e.g., you can't pack them in a case for travel.) .

Also bear in mind that the Pro models are a business expense for coffee professionals, which may reduce the price by anywhere from 10%-50%, depending on profits and tax bracket. Seeing as how the last paid work I did for the coffee industry was over 8 years ago, and my roaster will be only for personal use, that option isn't open to me.
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pixmap

#38: Post by pixmap »

Thanks for the comparison very informative! The search continues.... :)

rhtrevino (original poster)
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#39: Post by rhtrevino (original poster) » replying to pixmap »

If you can stretch your budget a bit then you may also consider the Aillio Bullet. You'll be dealing with much larger batch sizes but have full control over airflow, drum speed, and heat. It's what I had before I went the route of the Ikawa Pro v3 and I was debating my next move...that's why I created this thread.

All in all, I don't regret the Ikawa in the least bit, despite it not being the least expensive way to continue the roasting hobby. I've been home roasting for three years and I've already had better consistent back-to-back roasts than ever before. Of course, that's because I never fully harnessed the power of the Bullet. Still, I consider it a win and the Ikawa is the first roaster on which I've been able to truly make the connection between drying/Maillard/development and how making various adjustments has an impact on the cup.

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yakster
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#40: Post by yakster »

The Bullet does have a learning curve. Took me many roasts going from a Behmor to the Bullet to really feel like I was comfortable with it. My laptop died after I felt I got the feel for it and I was happy enough to roast with just the front panel until I could replace it.

Of course with the smoke production with a larger batch the Ikawa opens up roasting inside with it's small batches.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272