Ikawa Home vs Bullet - Page 3

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
sambuist

#21: Post by sambuist »

Ok let's stick with 50g batch size . Maybe we can work on a 75g version later

As for the offset in temp. The bullet uses a infrared measuring tool that isn't effected by batch size as it is not a probe. No matter what bean or batch size I use 200C is almost always the FC temp . It's pretty amazing really .

If you want to pre make a lighter version of your ROR profile and link it I will test both and see what colors I get . Then we can go from there

GDM528

#22: Post by GDM528 » replying to sambuist »

Ok, this is lighter, but still not "light":



This roast shows what might be a slight exothermic bump just before first-crack was heard. Initial results look medium, but will likely evolve a bit over the next few days.

Here's the recipe:
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... pMWIBMA==

Could be a challenge to go any lighter and still keep the RoR linear, and have a reasonable amount of roasting time once FC starts. How important is it to get a perfectly linear RoR?

Based on some other tests, simply bumping up the batch size may be enough to lighten it up.

sambuist

#23: Post by sambuist »

So I got the machine today and had to roast up a few batches (90g for all)

I tried three profile and then measured their color
RoR medium =23 med-light
IKAWA espresso roast 1=23 med-light
IKAWA espresso roast 2=19 med

Both the IKAWA profiles are here

https://www.ikawacoffee.com/at-home/blo ... sterclass/

I'm really glad that the RoR and IKAWA espresso roast came out to the same color as the were roasted very differently so I wonder if they taste the same? In 5 days we will find out!

Here is a pic of the three roasts . It looks like RoR is the most uniform both inside and out but it's really hard to tell because it's a poor quality iPhone pic !

As a roasting experience, the IKAWA is so easy.


GDM528

#24: Post by GDM528 »

Really looking forward to the taste comparisons!

Finally figured out a steadily declining RoR recipe for light roasts. Did not anticipate how much harder it would be to tweak in - many beans died to bring us this information. The lower ending temps really crowded the curve. The challenge was in properly adjusting the shape of the temperature ramp to get a linear RoR with only six setpoints whilst simultaneously keeping the drying, browning, and development stages at about 3 minutes each, getting at least a minute for first-crack, and not over-darkening the beans. I salute all the peeps that have mastered light roasts - respect!

Here's the recipe https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... uZWkxYgEw
Should be editable with any version of the Ikawa app.



Don't have a roast meter but based on the roast temperatures and eyeballing the color, I'd estimate it at around a New England (per Wiki) - dark end of a light roast. I imagine this is very sensitive to the beans used, so YMMV. I'd suggest adjusting the second-to-last temperature setpoint (at 6:30) a just few degrees up/down to get the desired first-crack timing and roast color.

sambuist

#25: Post by sambuist »

thanks for that , i will pull it across.

was also looking through the royal coffee crown jewels list to see what i wanted to try next and noticed that they use the IKAWA pro on some of their roasts. they seem to use three different profiles of which one is declining RoR version which they call Crown Exhaust SR4 +DG. this is a modified version of there original Crown Inlet SR1.4 +DG profile that was also a declining RoR profile but maybe not as smooth?

anyway, across their offerings, when they roast with the Crown Exhuast SR4 +DG, it seem to become the best tasting profile as per their writeup . i find this pretty interesting. unfortunately, they have only just started using this profile so the maybe it is not the best sample size to judge by. lets hope they keep adding it to the mix in the future.

below are two example where they used three profiles of which one is the newest RoR profile. the link for the standard and Maillard are here but the RoR is not the correct one (its the older Inlet version) :(

https://share.ikawa.support/profile/?CA ... YIyCUQvwE=

https://share.ikawa.support/profile/?CA ... oGCPAnEL8B



User avatar
N6GQ

#26: Post by N6GQ »

Going back to the initial question I guess it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. You said you have a Huky now so I'm wondering if its more capacity, better roast, or what it is you're trying to move towards.

I don't have any experience with Ikawas but 100g seems like a miniscule amount to me and for me I'd have trouble with that small of a roast.

I had a Bullet for a few years and recently switched to a Huky myself. In all honesty I vastly prefer the coffee roasted on Huky over that of Bullet. To me its a huge difference - my worst roasts on Huky are better than my best roasts on the Bullet. I'm not sure why its such a huge difference. I liked the Bullet but decided I wanted something simpler with less moving parts and that's why I moved to the Huky. I've been terribly happy with it. I'm not saying the Bullet is bad, its just different, and I wonder if electric roasting might be part of the problem - it just can't provide enough thermal mass over the entire roast. I don't know. But with a 300g minimum charge on the Bullet and a 100g max charge on the Ikawa, those are at differing ends of the spectrum.
LMWDP #614

GDM528

#27: Post by GDM528 »

N6GQ wrote:I don't have any experience with Ikawas but 100g seems like a miniscule amount to me and for me I'd have trouble with that small of a roast.
Once I adapted the way I store and dispense, the Ikawa's low capacity became a non-issue for me.

I used to roast coffee in kg batches and store in airtight jars that I would draw from over the course of weeks. Now, with the Ikawa's tiny batch size, I store my coffee in a half-dozen-ish time-stamped vacuum-sealed ziplock bags suspended on a hangar in the same space I used to keep the jars. Instead of marking a 'roasting day' on my calendar, I have a just-in-time inventory system where keeping the queue replenished is about as hard as making a couple slices of toast.

GDM528

#28: Post by GDM528 »

sambuist wrote:below are two example where they used three profiles of which one is the newest RoR profile. the link for the standard and Maillard are here but the RoR is not the correct one (its the older Inlet version) :(
Is the RoR profile still downloadable/readable despite the inlet issue? I can use the Pro app (in 'Guest' mode) to read the time/temp/fan settings off a table in the app, from which I can translate to the Home model.

Seems like most Ikawa profiles (including the ones from Royal) modulate the fan speed - is that absolutely positively unarguably necessary, like, really, really? I'm whining because changing the airflow can really mess with the heat transfer, almost as much as the temperature setting. It creates an overspecification problem in trying to unwind the recipe, kinda like blowing up all the bridges after you cross them. This is why I set a fixed fan speed and fuhgeddaboudit.

mathof

#29: Post by mathof »

GDM528 wrote: The challenge was in properly adjusting the shape of the temperature ramp to get a linear RoR with only six setpoints whilst simultaneously keeping the drying, browning, and development stages at about 3 minutes each, getting at least a minute for first-crack, and not over-darkening the beans.
I'm a little confused by your vocabulary. You indicate that the development stage of your profiles is 3 minutes, but in the graphs First Crack to drop ranges from 1:10 to 2:00. The development stage conventionally seems to be regarded as the time from FC to drop, although of course the beans are actually developing through most of the roast. What is your definition of the third stage?

Thanks.

sambuist

#30: Post by sambuist »

I have just finished tasting the following three profile roasts I completed ~5 days ago. The goal was to see if the same declining RoR profile on the bullet and the IKAWA would taste similar or not and how the alternative (to a declining RoR) roast profiles on the IKAWA that come pretty much standard on their app compare.

This isn't exact science and I'm sure I'm bias, so be kind :wink:

I tried three IKAWA profile and then measured their color
1- RoR medium =23 med-light
2- IKAWA espresso roast 1=23 med-light
3- IKAWA espresso roast 2=19 med

My favorite version of this coffee on the bullet was a declining profile and measured 26 (light). It has nice acidity with lingering milk chocolate notes . Very very good.

Roast 1 on the IKAWA had nice acidity but was a little sharp at the end . It wasn't as sweet as I would have hoped. Maybe a little bland even.
Roast 2 has nice acidity, with a present long finish. The body was there and it actually tasted like the roast from the bullet even though is was slightly darker. I really enjoyed this roast.
Roast 3 didn't have much acidity if any but had great chocolate overtones without being roasty/baked or hollow. It tasted better in milk than as a shot . Great as a base for a blended coffee think.

What surprised me was that I actually enjoyed the non-RoR profiles more and that native profiles from the IKAWA tastes similar (maybe better? :wink: ) than that of the bullet . Them are fighting words I know!!

My conclusion is three fold
1- RoR profiles are not the only way to roast even though they look cool on the plot
2 - the bullet and the IKAWA can both roast great coffee albeit via different methods (convection verse a more classic drum roaster )
3- the IKAWA team has made it really easy to roast great coffee easily by having preset roast recipes. It truly is a plug and play roaster that can roast amazing coffee.

As for my recommendation- both machines can produce great coffee but for my situation the IKAWA wins (it's smaller, cheaper , easier to roast, plug and play , and I only roast for myself so 100g max per batch isn't an issue) .