IKAWA Home - profiles - Page 3

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
User avatar
MNate
Posts: 954
Joined: 8 years ago

#21: Post by MNate »

myso wrote:Can anyone provide light and low development time profiles (light +)from the iOS app for the coffees in the starter pack (list below)?

Ethiopia Dumerso
Ethiopia Buie Bora
Zambia AA Isanya Kateshi
Guatemala Blue Ayarza
Mexico Huatusco

Since android app is still not updated Android users don't have the option other than to use the recommended profiles from ikawa. For example It's med dark ++ for the Guatemala blue ayarza and it spends quite a long time above 250C. I don't see that I'll like it that way. I'm actually interested in light roasts and I don't mind going lightest as far as I can stay away from underdeveloped coffee roasting errors.

Also if possible I would love to compare the whole range of the roast and development degrees for these beans. That is 3 different development levels and 5 different roast levels so it would make 15 links for each of these origins. This might take a while so if you have time to do just one or two I have listed the coffees above in order of interest for me.

The reason I want to see the whole range of roast degrees iOS app provides is to see a pattern how they go lighter for a specific profile and to implement it to other profiles or even to their profiles to lighten the coffee even further.

Also does the iOS app provide generic profiles for different variaties or processing methods for different origins?
Using Artisan I'm used to tracking the Rate of Rise instead of the actual heat but I feel like the profiles of the Ikawa are more talking heat. Even their descriptions sound that way: "An initial spike, a dip, then a steep rise in temperature create a quick but still even drying phase of this coffee. Once the drying phase is almost done, the temperature increases steadily..." is how they describe what they do with the Mexico Huatusco.

Here are all the 15 for the Mexico Huatusco (oops, looks like I missed at least one). All the profiles for this one seem similar with that initial spike except, oddly, the Medium Light has a "steady increase in temperature." I could probably do the rest, if it's really helpful.

'MexL+' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... NvIgAoAA==

'MexL++' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... ljbyIAKAA=

'MexL+++' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... hpY28iACgA

'MexML+' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... ljbyIAKAA=

'MexML++' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... hpY28iACgA

'MexM+' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... hpY28iACgA

'MexM+++' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... ljbyIAKAA=

'MexMD+' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... NvIgAoAA==

'Espresso Medium-Dark ++' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... hpY28iACgB

'MexMD+++' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... hpY28iACgA

'MexD+' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... hpY28iACgA

'MexD++' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... NvIgAoAA==

'MexD+++' freshly roasted by @ikawahome, here's the recipe
https://share.ikawa.support/profile_hom ... ljbyIAKAA=

GDM528
Posts: 824
Joined: 2 years ago

#22: Post by GDM528 »

mathof wrote:... measured from first crack ...
I've observed development starting before any audible first crack, by directly measuring the temperature of the spinning bean mass during the roast. Below is the roast profile from a work-in-progress attempt to just barely hit Full City with natural-processed beans:



I marked the spot where the bean temp is going up despite the Ikawa setpoint temperature going down. I presume the bean temperature going exothermic is an indication that I've triggered whatever chemical reaction magic happens for the development phase. The beans were giving off heat at least 30 seconds before I heard the first crack, and it was another 30 seconds before first crack really kicked in.

A key takeaway for me, is to stop trying to hear audible second cracks to identify when I've hit Full City - that was leading me to significantly higher temperature setpoints. I'm trying to minimize incinerating the lovingly-grown single-origin beans, so I'm leveraging the Ikawa's awesome thermal control to dial in the lowest possible temperature to trigger the chemistry. Furthermore, I think the Ikawa could dial in the temperature for first crack so precisely that some beans may never make a sound.

I extended the runtime of the roast to help me delineate the proper temperature setpoints - about a minute longer than Ikawa's feeble attempts at dark roasts. I could squeeze it back down to about 8 minutes, but I don't know why - what's the rush? Some drum roasters can take up to 20 minutes, and I've heard drum roasters can produce some fine coffee. Are air roasters faster simply because they can be faster - or must they be faster?

mgrayson
Supporter ♡
Posts: 619
Joined: 16 years ago

#23: Post by mgrayson replying to GDM528 »

Very helpful! When I roasted some Pink Bourbon, I got a very late audible FC, so that I thought I had less than a minute of development. And yet it was delicious. (Medium roast according to EspressoVision)

User avatar
MNate
Posts: 954
Joined: 8 years ago

#24: Post by MNate »

I agree that the cracks are too hard to hear to really identify a start of FC. There are often some loud ones, but not like on a drum roaster. Not sure why. But I do think the profiles I've used have roasted evenly, even when I did 100g batches.

My surprise, looking at the profiles, has to do with development time. I would have figured their +++ would have to back off on the heat a lot more. Wouldn't a, say, Medium Light profile always be aiming for the same drop temp on a given bean and the longer development times just getting to that temp more slowly from FC? Maybe it does actually work like that but just looking at the graph it would seem to me to be a lot of heat. Looking at the Mexico graphs, the temp doesn't change much with the longer development time, it's just that the roast goes longer. This will be the next thing I play with.








And I would have expected more of their suggested profiles for their beans to be +++ for espresso since that's what they recommend, but what I see are ++.

User avatar
sosha
Posts: 266
Joined: 11 years ago

#25: Post by sosha »

Out of curiosity.......why are folks tweaking the fairly wide variety of roasting options/levels available from Ikawa?
LMWDP #440
www.kelpfish.com

User avatar
MNate
Posts: 954
Joined: 8 years ago

#26: Post by MNate replying to sosha »

I'm not since I don't have the Advanced Editor. But I don't think making my own profile would be well guided without a bean probe graphing the rate of rise.

But yeah, their default profiles are:
Espresso/drip x washed/Natural x Light/ML/M/MD/Dark x 3 development times so 2x2x5x3=60 profiles just of the default.

But then each of their beans has a recommended profile that is always Medium Dark ++ (medium development time) and they really do like different profiles. Here are some from what I've bought:







So a lot to try. Their descriptions do tell why they take this approach but yet it really so doesn't... is this a good approach for this variety/size/elevation, etc?

So yeah, lots of supplies profiles to try, but it still seems like just try and taste and try again is the only option without more data. The results have been good no matter what I've tried though, so I'm pretty happy.

GDM528
Posts: 824
Joined: 2 years ago

#27: Post by GDM528 »

sosha wrote:Out of curiosity.......why are folks tweaking the fairly wide variety of roasting options/levels available from Ikawa?
"Fairly wide" - but not as wide as I was hoping for. I tried roasting some non-Ikawa beans at the lowest and highest limits of the roast profiles Ikawa provides in the iOS app:



Note the beans on the far right were commercially roasted (and quite tasty BTW). So I assert that what Ikawa says "is the darkest that we would ever advise" is about two ticks lighter than other real-world examples. Hence my quest to explore the 'dark arts'.

Auctor
Posts: 432
Joined: 3 years ago

#28: Post by Auctor »

Beyond the really interesting experimenting shown here, which can be further modified by the Editor, I signed up for the value of learning how different curves can impact my perception of "tastiness". Admittedly, I'm a bit behind the learning curve (ha!) right now, but I'm still very hopeful about playing more with the machine.

That said, in doing more research, I'm starting to wonder if the combination of tiny air roaster and so few parameters in the Home version may prove that the Home isn't designed for someone serious about learning how to roast, but is built for the novice who just wants to push a button.

GDM528
Posts: 824
Joined: 2 years ago

#29: Post by GDM528 »

MNate wrote:I'm not since I don't have the Advanced Editor. But I don't think making my own profile would be well guided without a bean probe graphing the rate of rise.
I concur. The wiggly curves that Ikawa provides for their roast profiles may not properly represent the exothermic phase of the roast. My earlier post shows how the Ikawa setpoints don't consistently follow the measured spinning-bean-mass temperature. What might look like a flat portion on Ikawa's curve might actually be a rising temperature for the beans. Even with the graph editor you're flying blind, save for unreliable indicators like audible first crack - unless you stick a thermocouple in the beans like I have. Nonetheless, if you would like to try your hand at tweaking roast profiles, note that I post 'legacy' recipes that are editable with the free iOS app.

Speaking of the iOS app... I don't see any temperature labels for the vertical axis on my iPhone XS. What model phone is producing those screenshots?

GDM528
Posts: 824
Joined: 2 years ago

#30: Post by GDM528 »

Auctor wrote:Beyond the really interesting experimenting shown here, which can be further modified by the Editor, I signed up for the value of learning how different curves can impact my perception of "tastiness". Admittedly, I'm a bit behind the learning curve (ha!) right now, but I'm still very hopeful about playing more with the machine.

That said, in doing more research, I'm starting to wonder if the combination of tiny air roaster and so few parameters in the Home version may prove that the Home isn't designed for someone serious about learning how to roast, but is built for the novice who just wants to push a button.
Presuming you're saying you signed up for the Graph Editor, can you post a screenshot of what it looks like? I'm curious if it's any better than what the Android app shows.

I suspect the Home model is priced to sell their curated green coffee, as the editor subscription is about the same price as a couple bags of Ikawa's beans. Nonetheless, with a little bit of non-destructive hacking I think the Home version has the core elements necessary to get serious about roasting.