Ikawa Home Coffee Roaster. - Page 2

#11: Post by **Pressino** » February 7th, 2023, 4:48 pm

I think the OP's experience suggests that the roasting novice would be better served starting out with a more simple manual roasting methods, like stovetop pan, popcorn popper, etc. to learn the basics before moving to more complex roasters like the Ikawa. Once you get a good sense of how coffee beans evolve during a "generic" roast cycle, it's much easier to fiddle with and "customize" roast parameters with equipment like the Ikawa and get good results. Sweet Maria's has a very good hot air popcorn style roaster (called "Popper") with a couple of manual adjustments for under $100.

February 7th, 2023, 6:38 pm

I'm not sure. Budget plays a big role, but let's assume that budget isn't an issue. Given that there's no difference to an individual between $100 for a Popper and $1000 for an IKAWA, should that new-to-roasting person buy an IKAWA? Theoretically the IKAWA should be more consistent, and thus might be easier to learn on? I have no opinion ... at this moment

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Popper or IKAWA or whatever, I am strongly in favour of buying 10lb or 20lb of an easy-to-roast coffee that works at a variety of roast degrees like a washed high-grown Central American - and then experimenting. After seven years of roasting and four roasters, I'm still buying 10kg/25lb of one coffee at a time, and I'm still learning how to roast to get what I want

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#13: Post by **MNate** » February 7th, 2023, 9:12 pm

Pressino wrote:I think the OP's experience suggests that the roasting novice would be better served starting out with a more simple manual roasting methods, like stovetop pan, popcorn popper, etc. to learn the basics before moving to more complex roasters like the Ikawa..

I'd disagree. Ikawa is simple and consistent. Much more than anything else. That's a huge hurdle in most "beginner" roasters.

I think the main problem is the OP expected a great-for-him roast just by buying their greens, scanning its QR code and hitting start. This is exactly how Ikawa markets it, but for most of us it's insufficient. Either because we don't really like the greens to begin with, or because we prefer a different roast level (several on here have said they like much darker, for me I usually go lighter (medium-light ++ for espresso most often). And yes, then if you want to really learn the roasting there is a world to discover and I do think you can do this better on the Ikawa than I could on my Artisan-rigged FreshRoast. But likely not as well as on a Quest. At least that's been my experience.

#14: Post by **mgrayson** » February 8th, 2023, 5:21 am

ira wrote:I found most of the Ikawa profiles I've tried not so much to my liking. I wonder if that's partly that the Pro was always seen as a cupping roaster and that's the frame of reference they use to create profiles.

That's my sense from their communications.

February 15th, 2023, 7:15 pm

So... I just made a Honduras (IKAWA green coffee) and roasted medium dark ++++

5 days in, sitting in the fellow canister

I didn't try cupping after the roasting but when I tried both cupping and filter it just tastes like nothing. No aroma at all.

My fellow canister was never opened and it was air tight (green never disappeared).

I tried medium ++++ and medium dark +. Haven't tried these yet.

Very frustrating... is it the beans? What am I doing wrong? I'm using the preset and it's not looking good at all...

February 15th, 2023, 7:21 pm

Auctor wrote:Some Qs.

1) how long did you wait for it to rest (1 day, 3, 7, longer)?
2) did you try cupping the coffee first, to see if you actually like it?
3) have you experimented with their Kenya or Brazil (they're most "traditional" in terms of flavor and performance)?
4) have you experimented with different brew times?

To what other have noted, roasting can be very complex. I think the IKAWA Home has a lot of promise and value, but IKAWA does a terrible job training it's users to how to extract the best out of green beans. And to what someone else said, comparing to a drum roaster doesn't work (unless you're already a roasting expert).

So... I just made a Honduras (IKAWA green coffee) and roasted medium dark ++++

5 days in, sitting in the fellow canister

I didn't try cupping after the roasting but when I tried both cupping and filter it just tastes like nothing. No aroma at all.

My fellow canister was never opened and it was air tight (green never disappeared).

I tried medium ++++ and medium dark +. Haven't tried these yet.

Very frustrating... is it the beans? What am I doing wrong? I'm using the preset and it's not looking good at all...

February 15th, 2023, 7:25 pm

GDM528 wrote:A few things I've learned after getting my Ikawa Home a year ago:

Just like mgrayson, I've found many of Ikawa's curated greens to be 'not-to-my-liking'. Granted, no two sets of taste buds and attached brain are alike, but OMG-what-were-they-thinking. Third-party greens suppliers have to sell solely on the merits of their product - as roasted in a wide range of machines - that gives me more confidence that I too can be successful with those greens.

Many of Ikawa's roasting times are way too short for my tastes. I typically roast for at least eight minutes, and now I'm much happier with the results. I theorize that short roasts don't drive out CO2 as effectively, and as such require longer resting time to reduce the sourness. And speaking of resting, I also rest after grinding the coffee, up to an hour if it's only a day post-roast.

Step one is to max out Ikawa's roast profile modifiers (Dark, +++) Step two is to grab an editable profile from the "Ikawa Home - profiles" thread and play around with it. No extra-fee editor required.

I imagine Ikawa makes heavy use of cupping to evaluate their roasting profiles - but that may not correlate well to what I'll get with my espresso workflow. It took time, but I eventually figured out my own roasting profiles that are more tolerant to the quirks/flaws in my own brewing technique.

I started out with a big bag (10lbs) of highly regarded greens and stuck with them as I experimented with different roasting profiles - a core principle of design of experiment. What I learned translated to most of the new greens I've been trying - but not all. If I had been switching greens while experimenting with roasting profiles I might still be lost in the woods. It could be time for another "Best greens to learn roasting" thread...

I can't afford to "roast to compost", and this is where the Ikawa shines. I deliberately stick with small batches, such that even my worst experiments are over in just a few shots, and I'm encouraged to run lots of cheap experiments. If I had a drum roaster, I would have had to concurrently start a gardening hobby.

Many of the posters on this forum are producing professional-class results. I've learned much by reading and learning from other's experiences, regardless of their roasting equipment.

Thank you for the detailed reply!

So I used medium dark which takes about 9:20 to finish. But it still has no aroma and no taste. Not sour, bitter, just tastes like nothing.

It's been 5 days and I'm wondering if I should wait much longer for the aroma/taste to develop. I roasted every degree of Honduras beans. From medium+ to medium++, medium+++, medium dark+, and on. Tastes like nothing. Any suggestions?

Thank you!

#18: Post by **GDM528** » February 15th, 2023, 11:37 pm

For context, for the roasted coffee that you're tried before the IKAWA: what regions and roast levels of coffee do you like? And perhaps just as importantly, what don't you like? Of all the professionally roasted coffee you've tried, what percentage hit the mark for you? I'm thinking that might give first-order guidance on what and how to roast with the IKAWA. Pre-IKAWA I knew I preferred Central/South American over African, and that still held true with the IKAWA. On the other hand, I know that many others that think African origins are da bomb...

Some vendors even sell the same coffee roasted and unroasted, to give one a chance to benchmark.

I checked IKAWA's recipes for the Finca Cual Bicicleta and the longest I found was 8:10. I couldn't find an IKAWA profile that ran to 9:20 - was that when cooling started? I noted that some of their profiles (e.g. medium +++) look kinda 'bakey', meaning four minutes at a steady high temperature. Just me, but I'm very reluctant to go past two minutes development time, to avoid the 'Folgers effect'.

As for post-roast resting, the main thing I've noted is reduced sourness the longer it rests - dunno if that qualifies as aroma/taste development. Presuming it's stored in some sort of closed container/bag.

February 16th, 2023, 12:03 am

GDM528 wrote:For context, for the roasted coffee that you're tried before the IKAWA: what regions and roast levels of coffee do you like? And perhaps just as importantly, what don't you like? Of all the professionally roasted coffee you've tried, what percentage hit the mark for you? I'm thinking that might give first-order guidance on what and how to roast with the IKAWA. Pre-IKAWA I knew I preferred Central/South American over African, and that still held true with the IKAWA. On the other hand, I know that many others that think African origins are da bomb...

Some vendors even sell the same coffee roasted and unroasted, to give one a chance to benchmark.

I checked IKAWA's recipes for the Finca Cual Bicicleta and the longest I found was 8:10. I couldn't find an IKAWA profile that ran to 9:20 - was that when cooling started? I noted that some of their profiles (e.g. medium +++) look kinda 'bakey', meaning four minutes at a steady high temperature. Just me, but I'm very reluctant to go past two minutes development time, to avoid the 'Folgers effect'.

As for post-roast resting, the main thing I've noted is reduced sourness the longer it rests - dunno if that qualifies as aroma/taste development. Presuming it's stored in some sort of closed container/bag.

Yes that includes the cool down. Im guessing the cool down doesn't count?

Personally for filter coffee i prefer Kenya/Ethiopia/ so more of fruity,floral,bright notes. For espresso, i prefer milk chocolate texture with balanced acidity. Definitely not a fan of dark roasts where all the bright/distinct characteristics of specialty coffee flavors are gone.

When I tries the Honduras from ikawa i was expecting some brightness and overall a balanced flavor but just tasteless

Should I leave the coffee out for few hours after roasting!

After I cool down the coffee beans I usually store it in the fellow canister with one way valve (fellow canister allows the user to remove all air inside which puts the bean in a airless chamber). With coffee beans fresh roasted (purchased fro roasters) the co2 pushes the lid out several times throughout days. However, with my roasted beans, it just stay vacuumed so im assuming that Co2 is not being released after roasting or at least not enough....

The only reason why I tried medium dark +++ was beacuse I read that Ikawa Home does not roast dark enough for even there preset medium setting. I was trying everything I can to bring out a decent flavor from there Honduras beans.

I just purchased 10 lbs of brazilian green coffee from haceacoffee to try everything i can. I just dont have enough experience and knowledge to pay ikawa subscription to manually play around with temperatures.

Im researching but not finding a clear cut guideline on roasting. Just bunch of random information from youtube, books and etc... this is driving me crazy lol All the youtube videos with the ikawa pro or other roasters have several temperature sensors so It makes me even more confused on roasting from ikawa home.

I feel completely helpless. Guess I have to continue researching...

One question, when I cup my roasted beans after 8-24hrs (per SCA recommendation). What am I looking for? When I tried cupping after 5 daya, this honduras coffee was tasteless.

#20: Post by **drgary** » February 16th, 2023, 12:10 pm

Enok, I hear your pain!

I'm drinking that same bean right now, six days post roast, and it has a lot of flavor. It's a quality green. As someone noted earlier, the app gives you an ability to adjust the roast to your taste. Brewing also makes a lot of difference. Are you grinding to fully extract but not overextract the coffee? I steeped mine for 4 minutes in a Clever Dripper after grinding the coffee in an HG-1 with 68 mm burrs. The water was heated to 201°F/94°C. The brew ratio was 35 g in, 305 g out.

I'm very new to this roaster and am just trying it close to IKAWA's recommendations. I roasted 100 g. The profile is similar to their recipe but taken a touch darker. Roast time is less than 7 minutes, but I'm trusting their programming of the roast parameters. Scott Rao in his Coffee roasting: Best practices book writes that different roasters take different times for the same result. Fluid bed roasters with small capacity may run much faster than my 1 Kg propane drum roaster.

I think IKAWA is trying to provide an interface to more readily adjust roasts without going through the learning failures of roasting on a machine that isn't automated with fine temperature control like this. Added: This means that initially I don't think you need to study roasting principles. IKAWA automates that for you. For the 10 lbs of new coffee you've ordered, see if you can find an IKAWA profile for a similar coffee and try roasting with that first, then adjust it to your tastes with the options you see in the app. I would also start with the 100 g recommended weight that accompanies IKAWA's recipe. That company has been making Pro roasters since 2013. Their Home roasters soon followed. The Pro roasters are using more sophisticated software and sensors but are functionally similar otherwise. They're used by professional roasters to sample greens and profile an optimal roast. People participating in barista contests also sometimes use IKAWAs. So I would trust that they're not going to provide bad coffee or failed roast profiles. Prior text resumes below.

The Honduras Finca Bicicleta that I'm tasting has a medium level of malic acidity or "juiciness" and the flavor is like something between apricot and tobacco. It's a clean cup, meaning it isn't earthy. I don't taste roast defects. Much of what I'm tasting has to do with how the coffee was roasted, so that different roast levels and development times available within the interface would bring out different flavors. With more rest, I expect it to mellow and for the flavors to round out. For my tastes I might roast it a little darker to transform some of that acidity into more chocolate flavors and caramel. For a lighter roast, I might want it to rest beyond a week at least. Here's the profile I'm tasting.