Huky Roast and Learn ... Prisoner exchange edition - Page 12
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Rickpatbrown (original poster)
Updated front page timeline.
We roasted last weekend and samples are enroute!
Hopefully, everyone will get them before next weekend to cup.
Now, we need to discuss details of cupping and reporting. Marcel posted the SCA guidelines for cupping, which sounds good. We should try to stick to the general outlines there. I think we should decrease the grinds amount to preserve our samples to have enough for a shot or pour over of our favorite samples.
1) Is 5g cupping too little? Do we need to use 1-2grams to purge our grinders (I have a Baratza Vario with the flap removed, but it definitely retains a little.
2) Water ... ah the most complex of simple things. Water has been a thorn in my side ever since I travelled to Freiburg Germany and discover how the water affected tea (I was a tea nerd before I was a full fledged coffee nerd). I've been searching for a return to the holy land every since, but never able to capture it. I use Pavlis water for espresso to keep my machine clean. Espresso is good, but is so much more concentrated than filter, it can handle water being off a little (so long as you aren't over extracting the bad stuff). For pourover/cupping I use my crappy Pennsylvania tap water diluted with distilled water. Its not optimal, but it's easy, cheap and not terrible.
3) How do we take notes and talk about coffee in a meaning full way? These are all the same bean and should taste similar. The difference will be in roast level and perceived defects. It will be really interesting if they taste wildly different.
I am not very good at pulling apart flavor notes. I generally focus on the overall structure of the cup:
Body
Sweetness
Longevity of flavor/aroma
General notes (Fruit, Flower, Berry) But I can usually on identify a few
Acidity
Bad things like astringency, bitterness, grassy/grainy underdeveloped notes, boring "baked" coffee.
Its going to be a challenge for me to do 10-15 samples. Usually, I'm only working with 3-6. Taking notes and running through as they cool, while staying focused and not fatigued tasting will be tough.
We roasted last weekend and samples are enroute!
Hopefully, everyone will get them before next weekend to cup.
Now, we need to discuss details of cupping and reporting. Marcel posted the SCA guidelines for cupping, which sounds good. We should try to stick to the general outlines there. I think we should decrease the grinds amount to preserve our samples to have enough for a shot or pour over of our favorite samples.
1) Is 5g cupping too little? Do we need to use 1-2grams to purge our grinders (I have a Baratza Vario with the flap removed, but it definitely retains a little.
2) Water ... ah the most complex of simple things. Water has been a thorn in my side ever since I travelled to Freiburg Germany and discover how the water affected tea (I was a tea nerd before I was a full fledged coffee nerd). I've been searching for a return to the holy land every since, but never able to capture it. I use Pavlis water for espresso to keep my machine clean. Espresso is good, but is so much more concentrated than filter, it can handle water being off a little (so long as you aren't over extracting the bad stuff). For pourover/cupping I use my crappy Pennsylvania tap water diluted with distilled water. Its not optimal, but it's easy, cheap and not terrible.
3) How do we take notes and talk about coffee in a meaning full way? These are all the same bean and should taste similar. The difference will be in roast level and perceived defects. It will be really interesting if they taste wildly different.
I am not very good at pulling apart flavor notes. I generally focus on the overall structure of the cup:
Body
Sweetness
Longevity of flavor/aroma
General notes (Fruit, Flower, Berry) But I can usually on identify a few
Acidity
Bad things like astringency, bitterness, grassy/grainy underdeveloped notes, boring "baked" coffee.
Its going to be a challenge for me to do 10-15 samples. Usually, I'm only working with 3-6. Taking notes and running through as they cool, while staying focused and not fatigued tasting will be tough.
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Chert
Are we hoping to taste through w/e of March 11,12?
Do any of you use spider graphs or whatever those circles are called with taste categories?
In chosing between two roasts I had done I cupped 2 of one sample next to one of another, blinded. For my palate I had not differentiated the roasts enough to tell a difference.
With 5 or 6 gram samples, one could blindly cup 2 samples or 3 but that might be confusing. First step is too check if they are distinctive. You won't know which one is A or B marked under the cup. but the same letter is on the side of the cup - removable. If you sense a difference, write down what is different and have someone randomize them after removing the label from the side. Continue as the cup cools observations of taste attributes like you listed, Rick. And finally try to decide if one is superior as cupped and why. I don't assign grade / scores, but maybe that would help. And end of round, check if you are correct about which was A and B (or and C).
Move on to 2 or 3 different ones and repeat that process through the set.
And that should leave plenty for a winner's head to head and other extractions, PO or espresso.
Do any of you use spider graphs or whatever those circles are called with taste categories?
In chosing between two roasts I had done I cupped 2 of one sample next to one of another, blinded. For my palate I had not differentiated the roasts enough to tell a difference.
With 5 or 6 gram samples, one could blindly cup 2 samples or 3 but that might be confusing. First step is too check if they are distinctive. You won't know which one is A or B marked under the cup. but the same letter is on the side of the cup - removable. If you sense a difference, write down what is different and have someone randomize them after removing the label from the side. Continue as the cup cools observations of taste attributes like you listed, Rick. And finally try to decide if one is superior as cupped and why. I don't assign grade / scores, but maybe that would help. And end of round, check if you are correct about which was A and B (or and C).
Move on to 2 or 3 different ones and repeat that process through the set.
And that should leave plenty for a winner's head to head and other extractions, PO or espresso.
LMWDP #198
suggestion: Taste n Learn: turbo shots, light roast edition.
suggestion: Taste n Learn: turbo shots, light roast edition.
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Rickpatbrown (original poster)
I planned on going at it this weekend, the 5th with whatever arrives. I am travelling the following weekend, but will try to get any stragglers cupped as soon as I can.Chert wrote:Are we hoping to taste through w/e of March 11,12?
So you are saying just cup 2 or 3 at a time? And have winners advance to the next round. This sounds reasonable.Chert wrote:
With 5 or 6 gram samples, one could blindly cup 2 samples or 3 but that might be confusing. First step is too check if they are distinctive. You won't know which one is A or B marked under the cup. but the same letter is on the side of the cup - removable. If you sense a difference, write down what is different and have someone randomize them after removing the label from the side. Continue as the cup cools observations of taste attributes like you listed, Rick. And finally try to decide if one is superior as cupped and why. I don't assign grade / scores, but maybe that would help. And end of round, check if you are correct about which was A and B (or and C).
I'm a little confused about the blind labeling. Are two of them the same sample? When I check to see if I was correct, what am I correct about?
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Chert
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Two different samples. It becomes a test of one's ability to differentiate between the samples and it seems to me a useful point given that the coffee is the same across all the roasts. This is normally done as a triangle test with 2 same, one odd sample out, but we won't have enough coffee for that. And putting 3 different samples is another option, but I think I, at least, would get confused between three samples in trying to test my ability to detect distinctiveness.Rickpatbrown wrote:I'm a little confused about the blind labeling. Are two of them the same sample? When I check to see if I was correct, what am I correct about?
LMWDP #198
suggestion: Taste n Learn: turbo shots, light roast edition.
suggestion: Taste n Learn: turbo shots, light roast edition.
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Marcelnl
- Supporter ♡
was planning on cupping all together, in a blinded way (have my GF label cups and set up a list so I grind and taste in a blinded fashion)
To me it seems more easy to detect differences than to try objectivate something as subjective as taste. First do a description of all flavor aspects using the aspects mentioned in the SCA protocol (plan to print a 'source' data sheet for each sample containing all measurement points), at the end we could hand over the data to a biostatistician and get results
(that is definitely work induced OCD)
Suggest to weigh ground coffee as to eradicate the effect of retention (I know I have to with the Major, even with the removable spout)
To me it seems more easy to detect differences than to try objectivate something as subjective as taste. First do a description of all flavor aspects using the aspects mentioned in the SCA protocol (plan to print a 'source' data sheet for each sample containing all measurement points), at the end we could hand over the data to a biostatistician and get results
(that is definitely work induced OCD)
Suggest to weigh ground coffee as to eradicate the effect of retention (I know I have to with the Major, even with the removable spout)
LMWDP #483
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Marcelnl
- Supporter ♡
LMWDP #483
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Milligan
You will be ready to run a marathon after drinking all that 
Have fun! Looking forward to the taste discussion.
Have fun! Looking forward to the taste discussion.-
Marcelnl
- Supporter ♡
we completed it without jitters, I did not put the spittoons in the frame 
Also looking forward to comparing notes, although I'm expecting a huge temporal effect in scoring 4 week old roasts versus 1-2 weeks post roast.
Also looking forward to comparing notes, although I'm expecting a huge temporal effect in scoring 4 week old roasts versus 1-2 weeks post roast.
LMWDP #483
Sponsored by Baratza
