Roasting with Kaldi New Wide (Orange)

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
Vince_in_Montreal
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#1: Post by Vince_in_Montreal »

I'll know tomorrow if this one will end up drinkable but my 27th roast since getting my Kaldi New Wide looks like the most promising yet.

Anyone know how to manually add my gas inputs to Artisan? Can't figure it out.

I still cannot extend dry time to anywhere near 5 mins, even with Gas basically off for the first 1:30. And I probably should have dropped it 30 seconds sooner.

Avoided any sort of crash in my last 3 roasts which is great, but still getting flicks. Oh well.


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mkane
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#2: Post by mkane »

Events;buttons

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CarefreeBuzzBuzz
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#3: Post by CarefreeBuzzBuzz »

Quick Start Guide. Link in signature. See Events.
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Artisan Quick Start Guide
http://bit.ly/ArtisanQuickStart

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Skylander
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#4: Post by Skylander »

Forgive my suggestion as a roast on a different machine but have you tried a lower charge temp? That might help bring TP down a bit...

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mkane
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#5: Post by mkane »

^^^^^^^^^^And that's been my main focus these days. Low enough to get 212° as close to 25% total roast time at possible.

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Brewzologist
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#6: Post by Brewzologist »

What's the rationale for wanting a lower TP? Is there a particular temp target that is beneficial? Or some desired degrees of drop from charge? Curious here.

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EddyQ
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#7: Post by EddyQ »

Brewzologist wrote:What's the rationale for wanting a lower TP?
The high TP indicates a lot of heating from the get go. He asked how slow things down.

It looks to me like there is too much heat, but the charge temp is not far off. How many beans are you charging with? Too little and you will need to back off on heat.

BTW, I almost always have little to no gas for the first 1.5min. But I have a different roaster.
LMWDP #671

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Vince_in_Montreal (original poster)
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#8: Post by Vince_in_Montreal (original poster) »

Skylander wrote:Forgive my suggestion as a roast on a different machine but have you tried a lower charge temp? That might help bring TP down a bit...
I've charged between 300-350 prior to this roast, the reason I upped the charge temp was to bring the initial ROR closer to 40 as I was previously hitting about 35ror.

What I'm thinking of trying is bringing the charge temp back down to 350-360 And turning gas completely off for soak period (I've been lowering it to the tiniest of flames) then raising my initial gas setting to 2.3kpa instead of 1.6kpa and lower it more frequently than I did this roast.

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EddyQ
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#9: Post by EddyQ »

Vince_in_Montreal wrote:What I'm thinking of trying is bringing the charge temp back down to 350-360 And turning gas completely off for soak period (I've been lowering it to the tiniest of flames) then raising my initial gas setting to 2.3kpa instead of 1.6kpa and lower it more frequently than I did this roast.
That sounds like a good plan to me. I'm pretty hard on the gas just after that 1.5m. In fact, almost all the roaster can do with just enough air to maximize heat transfer to beans.
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OldmatefromOZ
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#10: Post by OldmatefromOZ »

I know I have written at length about these roasters before but without going and looking through previous threads this is where I have landed with the Kaldi Classic which has the same type of drum as the Wide.

Vince how did you land setting up the roaster with regards to burner position? Is it open flame LPG like a wok burner?
You are using a HEAP of gas and your numbers are pretty much the same as where I used to be before modifying my roaster.
The high gas is trying to compensate for inadequate heating of the heavy SS drum and too much ambient airflow going through it.

The following Artisan log is my standard medium espresso roast 400g, zero bake defects, rich and well developed sweetness balanced acidity, easy and versatile to use on any kind of espresso shot one wishes with no under developed vegetal astringency.

Heat source is this wok burner 12.5 MJ/hr at 2.8Kpa with needle valve and high resolution pressure gauge https://www.auscrown.com.au/products/pr ... as-ck107lp

Max pressure for this 400g roast is a little over 1 Kpa at 1.05 - 1.1
Pre heat airflow on the Kaldi air / chaff box is 1.3
Pre heat at 0.5 Kpa for at least 20 mins until steady ET (drum, air, exhaust temp - bare probe) around 250C
Stock 3 mm BT position will read around 230C
Reduce gas to 0.2 so that BT comes down to around 210 - 212
Load hopper, increase gas to 0.3, when it hits 218 BT / 240 - 242 ET = CHARGE
As beans are falling in gas is set to its max setting
After 1 min around the TP fan increased to 1.5 and there it stays for entire roast.
Gas stays at max setting until max ET is reached 245C which is about 30 to 45 sec after full yellow just before browning starts, here gas is reduced to 0.8 Kpa
Soon after 0.6 Kpa
45 sec before First Crack Start 0.4 Kpa
FCS 196C
At 11 - 12% DTR 204C over 206C (tail end of first crack) slow smooth reduction of gas 0.2 - 0.12 depending on how hot I want to finish the roast.
If I want to hit first pops of 2nd crack that should occur around 30% DTR and requires a little boost of gas 0.45 Kpa just before FCS.

The main things I have learnt with this drum:

The drum must be directly heated and heated well so that heat can be used properly. (My drum is painted black)

DO NOT SOAK! SS gives up its heat very quickly and in the first 2 to 3 mins the beans need as much heat as you can give them without
causing damage, this is essential for proper internal development. The last thing you want is to have to replace lost heat in the drum while the beans are losing moisture. Charge temps 220 and over start to show signs of tipping but only minor.

Set up a bare ET probe in the exhaust right near but not touching the drum in the small space between face plate and start of the drum vanes. This is where I had a 1.5 mm BT probe but at the bottom in the bean pile which kept breaking and was noisy.
After 100 or so roasts and going through 2 probes I realised the bare ET probe is much better information to roast by, so much so that I barely look at ROR on Artisan anymore except a quick glance. If i hit my ET targets during the roast the ROR declines perfectly / naturally.

The following profile has zero smoothing anywhere and a Delta span of 13 sec using the stock 3 mm probe.

People will likely look at this and think that roast is too fast relative to larger drum roasters. I have done it all and this by far and away the best developed coffee I have had from this drum. Longer roasts end up under developed and / or baked, 400g is still a very small amount of beans and once the initial moisture is gone you have lost your chance to develop the insides properly.

Any questions feel free to PM

EDIT: ive roasted 500g in my drum and it handles it ok, 450g works well for a longer roast, 400g is optimum and that was Kaldi Max recommend....with a poorly set up drum roaster. Properly set up take their reccomended weight with grain of salt.



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