Buyers Remorse - Kaleido M10 Astringent Roasts - Page 5

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
Ben N
Posts: 30
Joined: 3 months ago

#41: Post by Ben N »

Agtron70 wrote:image


Ben N,

I have very different K tuning parameters than what you posted.

My K values are out of the box.

How did you arrive at yours?

What is the PID roasting experience with those values?

What is the roast result using your K values?
I copied the ones greencardigan showed in his setup video, and tweaked them slowly over a few roasts. I am using an air roaster so mine will probably be different than yours. That said, I think your values are a big part of why you have a bad time with PID. Once I dialed those values in PID works well for me, I find it a joy to use, it's predictable and reliable. The only caveat is on my roaster configuration I have to ensure my preheat temp is higher than the starting roast temp or I tend to overshoot at the beginning. Also you need to know your roaster to make the automation work really well, my BT probe takes a lot of hot air from the fluid bed and will register some 40-50° higher at 1st crack.



Ignore ET, that probe is janky and needs replaced.

H175Driver
Posts: 28
Joined: 2 years ago

#42: Post by H175Driver »

Hi,
I'm not sure if this any help to you.

Have you tried reaching out to Barrett Ellis who is the US distributer of Kaleido? He is pretty switched on and I'm sure would offer some help on Auto roasting on your M10. kaleidoroasters@espressooutlet.com

I've just purchased an M2 and I'm still getting used to it.
I couldn't get auto roasting to work properly in background mode and switched to manual mode as per this article on his website which made all the difference.
https://kaleidoroasters.com/blogs/coffe ... e-roasters

Agtron70 (original poster)
Posts: 15
Joined: 2 months ago

#43: Post by Agtron70 (original poster) »

H175Driver wrote:Hi,

.....Have you tried reaching out to Barrett Ellis who is the US distributer of Kaleido? He is pretty switched on and I'm sure would offer some help on Auto roasting on your M10. kaleidoroasters@espressooutlet.com

I couldn't get auto roasting to work properly in background mode and switched to manual mode as per this article on his website which made all the difference.
https://kaleidoroasters.com/blogs/coffe ... e-roasters
Thanks H175,

I purchased my roaster from the Chinese manufacturer directly. With shipping it was discounted from the price available from any of the channels available in the USA. I received some spare parts and the delivery was within a week. Easy to work with from a purchase perspective. There was even a purchase option from a seller on Amazon at the time I made my purchase decision. The direct from the manufacturer route offered a better, cheaper, quicker deal than through intermediary resellers.

I have seen the very good mzedithj YouTube channel posts which is what that blog post is based on.

Her approach was different from what I was trying to achieve which was starting with an Artisan Designer created background roast profile vs using a previous roast as the background roast profile. Both approaches would then use the background roast to drive a PID controlled roasted using BT as the SV.

As a PID control it is interesting that the mzedithj method of auto roasting did not follow her background roast BT closely. Even though it looked like the roast was set up to follow the background BT it looks like it was following the power settings. The roast looked good it just did not follow the background BT in the way you would think a tightly controlled PID process would.

I am now having successful results using an alarm file in Artisan which adjusts inputs based on temp, time and or event triggers. Not a PID roast but it's working.

amh0001
Posts: 168
Joined: 8 years ago

#44: Post by amh0001 »

I remember scott Rao talking about how he was at a coffee show and talked to one of the roasters. He asked them if the coffee was roasted on an automated machine, and the roaster was astonished that he could tell. He said he always notices an astringency that the coffee gets from the heat source going on and off over and over.

I think that is going to be your problem right there. If you want to get good roasts with this machine try to copy Dr. Gary's graph. Dont mind the temps as you know they are off, just the roast curve.

Good luck!
Adam

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drgary
Team HB
Posts: 14382
Joined: 14 years ago

#45: Post by drgary replying to amh0001 »

I wish it were that simple. First, the OP also has a Kaffelogic roaster that is driven by a well-adjusted PID for that roaster. It's automated but tastes very good. The Scott Rao comment may apply to an insufficiently programmed PID or an automated roast that is not being watched because roasts on a larger drum roaster can be affected by changes in room temperature, humidity and barometric pressure. In other words, the same PID settings may not work as well with different conditions. My IKAWA is less sensitive to such changes because the PID adjust inlet temperature, which would compensate to keep it on track for most conditions. Even there, IKAWA doesn't recommending roasting under 40°F / 4.5 C

Following my graph would work well for someone using my roaster while keeping in mind that I was manually adjusting the controls. If external conditions were different, I would manually adjust the controls differently to hit my benchmarks. I also have a small fluid bed (IKAWA) roaster and get excellent results with it. But I expect that the roasting time and other settings are likely to drive a faster roast than on my drum roaster for similar results. In his book on roasting best practices, Rao writes that the roasting time is different on different machines.

I don't think that there's an easy substitute for getting to know your roaster and tweaking the settings by taste.

Something the profile I posted does show is a particular roast that was well-controlled and more importantly, that tasted good. I could have posted other roasts on that machine that tasted good where BT rate of rise increased somewhat before ending the roast. This is different from Scott Rao's usual advice.

Also, I am taking care to drive enough heat into the beans that as the roast proceeds, I'm always decreasing heat. As long as that's done gradually the coffee should heat through evenly. By doing many roasts on that machine I am able to anticipate heat adjustments that make a difference but aren't too sudden.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!