Buyers Remorse - Kaleido M10 Astringent Roasts - Page 4

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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drgary
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#31: Post by drgary »

@Agtron70: I think that Rytopa is guiding you very well and I would follow that advice.

Also, you might consider posting a thread with the criteria for your desired larger batch roaster that is well automated. You seem to have done research to arrive at your current choice of a Kaleido M10 and are finding yourself with science experiments you didn't want. I hope that scaling up doesn't bring lots of extra cost.

To respond to your question:
Agtron70 wrote:For a given bean that you roast on both your drum roaster and your Ikawa roaster, are the FC temps the same on both roasters?

If not, how do they typically differ?
The simple answer is that II haven't made the comparison because I just added BT and exhaust thermocouples to my IKAWA Home. Calling 1C accurately will be hard on the fly because the stove fan and the IKAWA itself are pretty loud and my hearing isn't the best.

I think you're looking for a guidepost here and I don't know if isolating a 1C number for the same coffee on different roasters will do it. 1C can be a bit hard to call. You can have a slow 1C with a wider temperature range, or a more robust within a narrower temp range. And, the temperature of onset may vary with speed of roast, fan speed, etc. I'm finding more early beans cracking on my larger drum roaster now that I'm charging hotter and running full fan.

Here's a rabbit hole that probably won't help right now. One of our members, GDM528, has adapted a moisture sensor to the IKAWA Home that allows him to accurately register 1C. That same moisture device could be fitted to other roasters. He has also characterized the temperatures in the IKAWA Home and has created a table for setting temperatures and predicting 1C, but I don't know that those efforts will help with your roaster.
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

mgrayson
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#32: Post by mgrayson »

Thank you for the charge temperature raising suggestion. I added the 30 second drop to the beginning of a standard espresso profile for the Ikawa PRO. The same PNG coffee I had such astringent results with before is quite pleasant (if not perfect) now.


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Ypuh
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#33: Post by Ypuh »

Thank you. These are the kinds of tips I'm still looking for.
I don't want a Decent

Ben N
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#34: Post by Ben N »

Can you post your artisan PID settings. Should look something like this:

Agtron70 (original poster)
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#35: Post by Agtron70 (original poster) »

drgary wrote: I think that Rytopa is guiding you very well and I would follow that advice.

You seem to have done research to arrive at your current choice of a Kaleido M10 and are finding yourself with science experiments you didn't want. I hope that scaling up doesn't bring lots of extra cost....

.....Here's a rabbit hole that probably won't help right now. One of our members, GDM528, has adapted a moisture sensor to the IKAWA Home that allows him to accurately register 1C. That same moisture device could be fitted to other roasters. He has also characterized the temperatures in the IKAWA Home and has created a table for setting temperatures and predicting 1C, but I don't know that those efforts will help with your roaster.
Thank you drgary. I will be following rytopa's lead.

I like your comments on adding additional sensors. That is a rabbit hole with my name on it. A fusion of the dark arts meets a home cyclotron kit.

If baking a cake were this "Merlin-esque", we'd all be eating raw grains and Twinkies would only be available at Michelin 5 Star restaurants.

I am all in.

Agtron70 (original poster)
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#36: Post by Agtron70 (original poster) »

Ben N wrote:Can you post your artisan PID settings. Should look something like this: image
Ben N,

I have very different K tuning parameters than what you posted.

My K values are out of the box.

How did you arrive at yours?

What is the PID roasting experience with those values?

What is the roast result using your K values?

Agtron70 (original poster)
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#37: Post by Agtron70 (original poster) »

A positive result achieved by using manual roasting and the power settings advised by rytopa and an elevated charge temperature suggested by many.

I'd still like PID roasting to work, but unfortunately it doesn't appear to be in the cards at this time.

I will be tuning the roast and then automating the power settings by generating Artisan alarms to automatically adjust the tuned power settings.

I've looked at the jittery nature of the RoR curve and note that a trend line would show a decreasing RoR. The downward spikes generally correlate with movements in the power settings - possibly indicating that when a power setting change occurs there is some momentary disruption in the IR heating that is conveyed to the BT by the air flow.

I believe I am on a good path now.

Thank you.


GDM528
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#38: Post by GDM528 »

drgary wrote:Here's a rabbit hole that probably won't help right now.
I've never seen such a succinct summary of my high-tech career. Thank you, sir! That belongs on a T-shirt.

FWIW I am collecting up the parts to make a far less over-top-moisture sensor that could fit in the tryer port of a drum roaster, 'cause I want more peeps collecting this awesome data. And yes, totally a rabbit hole, but maybe there's some sort of VOC measurement that can link to astringency... someday.

Using a stepped profile (probably not achievable on a drum roaster) I did note a correlation between the duration of the browning phase and vegetal+astringency: longer = less horrible. For a more typical RoR profile on my IKAWA I can achieve the same effect by increasing the initial temperature step at the beginning of the roast. I think a similar thing might happen by increasing the charge temperature in a drum roaster.

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drgary
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#39: Post by drgary »

Agtron70 wrote:A positive result achieved by using manual roasting and the power settings advised by rytopa and an elevated charge temperature suggested by many.

...

I've looked at the jittery nature of the RoR curve and note that a trend line would show a decreasing RoR. The downward spikes generally correlate with movements in the power settings - possibly indicating that when a power setting change occurs there is some momentary disruption in the IR heating that is conveyed to the BT by the air flow.

I believe I am on a good path now.

Thank you.

image
Great! Would increasing fan speed even out the heat transfer?

@Mr. Dangerfield: A moisture meter adaptable to many roasters would be great.
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

Agtron70 (original poster)
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#40: Post by Agtron70 (original poster) »

drgary wrote:Great! Would increasing fan speed even out the heat transfer?
I will definitely give that a try.