Best home PID electric roaster?

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
DaumierS

#1: Post by DaumierS »

I want to upgrade my roaster and I am asking members for their advice. Artisan 3e or Kaleido M10? Infrared or fluid bed?

I have had a Hottop 2k+ roaster for many years, and I was never happy about it. Even though my BT and RoR curves were OK many times, they never were what I wanted them to be.

What I want is to design a curve in Artisan designer, and to have my roaster follow that curve exactly. Hottop (as well as all electric drum roasters) is to slow to change the ET. Hence, it is just impossible to PID successfully with Hottop.

Therefore, I need a fluid bed or an infrared roaster, and I am currently considering two options:
- Artisan 3e (fluid bed),
- Kaleido M2 or M10 (infrared).

Here is my problem. I watched an excellent video by Jason Scott (link in the comments below) on how to PID with 3e. Jason describes in detail how he debugged all three PID parameters, and he demonstrated that it is possible to PID with 3e very well. Thank you, Jason! You are amazing!

But I have heard that fluid bed roasters never produce good body. Also, I read that infrared roasters have an advantage - they roast beans inside as well. So, infrared Kaleido should be better, I guess.

Unfortunately, there are no posts or videos on how to PID with Kaleido. Well, there is a video posted to youtube by a guy from Singapore, but his RoR curves are terrible. It is actually an example of a failed PID (I can explain why the problems in his video are caused by PID).

I asked Kaleido manufacturers, and they provided a youtube video (link in the comments below) showing a good PID roast. Unfortunately, their video is short, no explanations, and the resolution for some reason is extremely low. They never discuss the three PID parameters in this video. I am still not convinced that I can reproduce what they did.

Futhremore, there is a facebook group "Kaleido" and some people there post really bad videos of their PID roasting. The algorithm is unable to follow the background curve.

So, I have two questions.
- What would be a recommendation? Which roaster should I buy?
- Can anybody post here or elsewhere a few videos of their PID roasts with Kaleido? And discuss tuning the parameters?

I tried to ask about it a few people around, and the common answer is - I do not like PID roasting. I prefer manual. Amazing. It is like saying, I do not like PID in my espresso machine. I prefer to manipulate the heater manually. Why one would want it?

This answer (I do not like PID roasting), actually, tells me something rather negative. If I roast every second day, I do not want to spend 15 minutes doing it. I want just to push the button, and to have my roaster to follow my background curve. And getting the same results consistently.

What I understand from the above answer is that people were not able to get good results using PID, and that is why they prefer manual roasts.

A summary: I do want infrared Kaleido, but at the moment I am inclined to buy the fluid bed 3e. Am I right? Is it true that 3e does not produce a good body?

Thank you!

DaumierS (original poster)

#2: Post by DaumierS (original poster) »

An excellent video by Jason Scott on how to successfully PID with fluid bed Artisan 3e

DaumierS (original poster)

#3: Post by DaumierS (original poster) »

A video from the manufacturers of Kaleido roasters on PID roasts. The BT curve and the RoR curves follow the background well. I was told that the three parameters were
kp is 15.000,
ki is 0.070,
kd is 0.060.

But the video has a very low resolution, and I am just not convinced that I can consistently reproduce it at home.

DaumierS (original poster)

#4: Post by DaumierS (original poster) »

An example of a terrible PID roast from a user. The BT curve is unable to follow the background curve, and once it is below, the PID algorithm tries to compensate it and dramatically increases the RoR.

DaumierS (original poster)

#5: Post by DaumierS (original poster) »

My original post was too long, so let me repeat my two questions:
- Is it true that fluid bed roasters never produce good body? Is it true for Artisan 3e?
- Can somebody report here examples of good PID roasts with Kaleido?

Thank you!

ira
Team HB

#6: Post by ira »

FWIW, an Ikawa Home or Pro will do a darn good job of following a profile. On my pro it's hard to tell the difference in the curves of the same profile roasting the same beans. The hard part of all roasting is figuring out the curve you should use and what to adjust to get where you want to be.

LuckyMark

#7: Post by LuckyMark »

Daumier, just wondering if you have considered the Bullet? I assume induction would be quick to respond? (I don't know, have never touched a Bullet).

Will watchyour thread with interest as I have the same desire to automate. I was hoping the Kaffelogic may be it, but it seemsnot.

DaumierS (original poster)

#8: Post by DaumierS (original poster) »

ira wrote:FWIW, an Ikawa Home or Pro will do a darn good job of following a profile. On my pro it's hard to tell the difference in the curves of the same profile roasting the same beans. The hard part of all roasting is figuring out the curve you should use and what to adjust to get where you want to be.
I thought about IKAWA, but it is 100 g only. I think I want something like 400 g at least. But I can change my mind, after all, IKAWA roasting is easy - just push the button.

How good is Kaffelogic from the PID point of view. Right now it is 2 times cheaper...

DaumierS (original poster)

#9: Post by DaumierS (original poster) »

LuckyMark wrote:Daumier, just wondering if you have considered the Bullet? I assume induction would be quick to respond? (I don't know, have never touched a Bullet).

Will watchyour thread with interest as I have the same desire to automate. I was hoping the Kaffelogic may be it, but it seemsnot.
Google returns no results for Bullet and PID.

LuckyMark

#10: Post by LuckyMark » replying to DaumierS »

Apologies, must have confused some of the many reviews I have read recently