Automated first crack detection and analysis - Page 2
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- Team HB
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Interestingly, one of the things Rob Hoos said about tryers was to ignore them. If you've got proper instrumentation and probes there should be no information the tryer adds and every time you pull it, cold air gets into the drum and you risk messing up the profile. FWIW.
Ira
Ira
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I'm with the Hoos'. However, tryer or not really dependents on our individual setup and roasting purpose.
If I have only two or three batches amount of the same green bean, I may not care of the profiling. I may run one business-as-usual profile and enjoy the coffee for couple weeks. According to my taste impression over the two weeks, I may then decide to do a completely different roasting approach and enjoy a different aspect of the coffee. Smelling can help me to decide when to drop the bean.
Rob's approach is more systematic. 30 seconds of sampling interval and 3*F difference at the drop temperature is too big of gap and this guarantees detectable taste variations. If the same bean will be roasted for 20 more batches at the same profile, for the purpose of consistency, there is no way a tryer can improve the roast. In this case, I would do two or three roasts at once, and then compare the tastes of these roasts over the following week(s).
If I have only two or three batches amount of the same green bean, I may not care of the profiling. I may run one business-as-usual profile and enjoy the coffee for couple weeks. According to my taste impression over the two weeks, I may then decide to do a completely different roasting approach and enjoy a different aspect of the coffee. Smelling can help me to decide when to drop the bean.
Rob's approach is more systematic. 30 seconds of sampling interval and 3*F difference at the drop temperature is too big of gap and this guarantees detectable taste variations. If the same bean will be roasted for 20 more batches at the same profile, for the purpose of consistency, there is no way a tryer can improve the roast. In this case, I would do two or three roasts at once, and then compare the tastes of these roasts over the following week(s).
- drgary
- Team HB
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And Dave Borton, Tom Chips, Jim Schulman and others recommend training your senses and being all over the trier. This may be a difference between home roasting and professional (or not?). Plus, my roaster is sufficiently massive that I doubt I lose much heat by withdrawing the trier, or, one can adjust for that by slightly decreasing fan speed or increasing power. I can also see using the BT probe as a guide that you've probably entered 1C and go on that assumption.ira wrote:Interestingly, one of the things Rob Hoos said about tryers was to ignore them. If you've got proper instrumentation and probes there should be no information the tryer adds and every time you pull it, cold air gets into the drum and you risk messing up the profile. FWIW.
Ira
Gary
LMWDP#308
What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!
LMWDP#308
What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!
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I like this thread, if for no other reason than I've often thought of the same thing. Alas, old age and sloth prevents me from doing something about it . Back in the days of vinyl records I built a "Pop and Click Eliminator" from a kit. It used two audio paths, one with a bucket brigade delay line and one with a pop & click detector. When a pop or click was detected, that tiny 'slice' of audio was taken out and a slice of clean audio was 'pasted' in. The detector was very simple and was adjustable. To use it, we listened to the detector circuit and kept turning the detector control up into we began to hear music, then turned it back a bit. All this to say that it if I still had it, I'm positive the detector circuit could be used with a small microphone mounted to a roaster to pick up the 1C and 2C sounds with ease. These days, there are computer apps that do the same thing, but who wants to tie up a computer for something that can be done with a few components. I suggest that those interested in this idea for roasting do some searching among the audiophile blogs and web sites.
- yakster
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How common are the trier ports on roasters that have a spring-loaded flap on the inside that closes the port off when you remove the trier? I've seen them on Instagram, IIRC, but have a feeling that you won't see them on most of the roasters we're using.
-Chris
LMWDP # 272
LMWDP # 272
- millcityroasters
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I'm pretty sure that Rob was referring to excessive use prior to first crack. I've seen him roast several times and have never noticed him avoiding a tryer.ira wrote:Interestingly, one of the things Rob Hoos said about tryers was to ignore them. If you've got proper instrumentation and probes there should be no information the tryer adds and every time you pull it, cold air gets into the drum and you risk messing up the profile. FWIW.
Ira
We're supplying machines for the US Roasting Championship this year. Should I remove the tryers from those machines so as to not confuse the competitors?
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This discussion has evolved from "machine recording and analyzing first crack sound", "visualizing first crack sound", and "alternative sensory queue at FCs", to the use of tryer (trier, trowel). To be or not to be, that is the question.
Returning to OP's original question, yes, the start time of the first crack has impact on the taste.
How about the duration and the intensity of the first crack (also Spencer's original question)? I don't know. I record the FCs & FCe, but haven't paid much attention to record the intensity of FC. If the FC is not as intense as expected, usually by the time there would be very less options to do with that.
Returning to OP's original question, yes, the start time of the first crack has impact on the taste.
How about the duration and the intensity of the first crack (also Spencer's original question)? I don't know. I record the FCs & FCe, but haven't paid much attention to record the intensity of FC. If the FC is not as intense as expected, usually by the time there would be very less options to do with that.
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Someone posted something similar not too far back. RoastLearner for Artisan: train Artisan to listen to your roast
- drgary
- Team HB
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That looks promising but runs in Windows only. What's involved in converting it for a Mac?
Gary
LMWDP#308
What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!
LMWDP#308
What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!
- hankua
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"Online monitoring for crack sounds from coffee beans during roasting"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEBUpGMX4is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEBUpGMX4is