Anthony Douglas WBC Roast Profile

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
Milligan

#1: Post by Milligan »

I watched Anthony's performance at the WBC22 a few times. What a great job! One thing that stuck out was his brief description of the roast profile (around 6:00 mark.) He said they only went 2C above first crack begin temp but had 24% dev time.

Traditionally this would be considered a stall. The ROR would have flatlined. I'm also curious how delicately they had to enter first crack to only get 2C worth of increase in temp over that amount of time.

Perhaps they narrowed in on the range of temp that a series of chemical reactions take place to give a preferred taste and dug in there to allow those reactions to fully complete. I'd love to read a full write up on that roast.

Thoughts?

OldmatefromOZ

#2: Post by OldmatefromOZ »

Without full context it is not worth thinking about.

GDM528

#3: Post by GDM528 »

Can't quite make out something he said in the video:

"... we extended the post-first-crack development to 24%. Ensuring ???bility and sweetness." Ensuring what?

Finishing 2 degrees above first-crack seems doable on a sample roaster like the Ikawa. He did not say the temperature went no higher than 2 degrees, so maybe they overshot and sloped down from there. I've done a similar up/down thing and it does seem to alter the flavor profile. Furthermore, isn't 24% development kinda normal for a fluid-bed roaster?

On another note, the tone of his presentation has inspired me to listen to TED talks while making my morning coffee :)

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TomC
Team HB

#4: Post by TomC »

Ensuring solubility and sweetness.

Honestly, I don't take anything stated at the WBC to heart. It's a lot of bluster and BS for theatrical points. I do like his routine, effective conversation and patter, but I don't put a ton of weight into the specifics of how a barista on that stage relates to how the coffee was roasted, or why.
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Milligan (original poster)

#5: Post by Milligan (original poster) »

GDM528 wrote:Can't quite make out something he said in the video:

"... we extended the post-first-crack development to 24%. Ensuring ???bility and sweetness." Ensuring what?

Finishing 2 degrees above first-crack seems doable on a sample roaster like the Ikawa. He did not say the temperature went no higher than 2 degrees, so maybe they overshot and sloped down from there. I've done a similar up/down thing and it does seem to alter the flavor profile. Furthermore, isn't 24% development kinda normal for a fluid-bed roaster?

On another note, the tone of his presentation has inspired me to listen to TED talks while making my morning coffee :)
Yes, going over and coming back down would still fit his wording but I feel like he was making a point of that non-traditional roast method. I know baristas competing have edited their presentation to the nth degree so every word spoken at that level of competition should have something meaningful to say. It could also be a bunch of wank like TomC mentions.

Seeing as fluid bed blows through drying then yes the dev ratio can be quite high and still have a fast roast.

I haven't seen many profiles only go to 2C above first crack (if we take his words at face value and there wasn't something weird like an overshoot and taper back) and still retain that kind of DTR.

I found it interesting and perhaps some technique I haven't come across.

Here is a link to the coffee:
https://axilcoffee.com.au/product/el-diviso/

Trjelenc

#6: Post by Trjelenc »

Possibly meant 2C after the finish of first crack? I agree that it can probably be disregarded as part of the theater WBC presentation. DTR is such an immensely useless stat when it's presented without the rest of the context of the roast profile, he might have said it to dress up his presentation with something that sounds analytical to someone who doesn't know what it means

GDM528

#7: Post by GDM528 »

"Solubility"... I've learned a new roasting note today! Not sure what it means, but maybe that's the point. I confess I've done this myself, and it works: quickly splice in a word that distracts the listener from assiduously following the main thread. It makes the audience more susceptible to suggestion, especially when you're telling the judges exactly what to write down on their scoring sheets ;)

Back to the OP's point: I resonated with the "2 degrees over first-crack" thing not so much as an incomplete technical point, but as a general strategy. Lately I've been exploring progressively lower development temperatures that still get 'roasty' notes without 'burnt for no good reason' notes. An Ikawa Pro set to inlet control could easily do this.

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drgary
Team HB

#8: Post by drgary »

The amount of complexity and repeated suggestions to trust and enjoy connected with flavor notes also repeated forms a really effective trance induction. The number of variables exceeds the ability of short-term memory to track and separately evaluate whether you like those flavor notes, how concentrated they are, and how you compare them to other performers' efforts. The complex preparation of the signature drink that repeats the flavor notes in each step, and appends them to an unusual technique, such as desiccating milk, is a suggestion of mastery of many methods.

The roast profile description is not that unusual, since you may want to tone down the intensity of anaerobic fruitiness with sufficient development. The development ratio is not unusually high, and a near stall at the end of a light roast is also common. If you don't stretch it too much, it won't be roasty or bland.

To do all of that while preparing coffee and maintain emotional rapport with the judges is quite a feat. That first place looks well earned.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

GDM528

#9: Post by GDM528 »

Would it be fair to say there are no deaf WBC judges? Maybe it's just me, but that level oratory 'guidance' feels like a gustatory grift.

I'm further absorbing the "solubility" remark. Extending the development time will help break down the bean structure and increase the rate of extraction - but how is that better than simply grinding finer or adjusting how the shot is pulled?

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drgary
Team HB

#10: Post by drgary »

It's probably a better roast of that coffee. Of course, developing it more will make it more soluble.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!