Favorite Espresso Blends 2010 - Page 12

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HB (original poster)
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#111: Post by HB (original poster) »

First a general comment:

We evaluate the coffee as soon as received. If the coffee arrives prior to the roaster's recommended rest period, we evaluate it a few days before, during, and after their recommendation. If the roaster is located on one of the coasts, the coffee may take longer to reach its destination due to the coast-to-coast ground transport. We ask for the lowest-cost shipping option; Chris is on the west coast, Dave and I are on the east coast, and Jim/John/Nicholas are in the middle, so we think this gives a fair representation of the roaster's shipping policy.

Now to Chris' comment that may have prompted your question, excerpted below:
malachi wrote:...I didn't get the coffee until 14 days post roast. Now... I know that people keep talking about this "trend" towards long rest times with espresso but I'm still a skeptic. None the less... the reality is that I'm on the West Coast, and the coffee is 2 weeks old. So I'm working with what I've got here.
All of the reviewers noted the coffee from Terroir arrived later post-roast than expected, even in light of ground shipping. As Jim mentioned under "A NOTE ON FRESHNESS", Terroir doesn't ship their espresso blends coffee on roast days, instead it ships when the order is received from coffees in stock. Nonetheless, Chris is planning to revisit his Terroir writeup using coffee that is less than a week post-roast.
Dan Kehn

Richard
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#112: Post by Richard »

HB wrote:. . . Terroir doesn't ship their espresso blends coffee on roast days, instead it ships when the order is received from coffees in stock.
My personal experience with Terroir is quite to the contrary (and I order a fair amount of coffee from them). Coffees I receive have been almost always, with some rare exceptions, shipped on the date of roast.
Nonetheless, Chris is planning to revisit his Terroir writeup using coffee that is less than a week post-roast.
Look forward to reading that! Thank you.
-- Richard

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HB (original poster)
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#113: Post by HB (original poster) »

Richard wrote:My personal experience with Terroir is quite to the contrary
Obviously you have an advantage living in the same city as their roastery, especially compared to Chris who is located on the opposite side of the country. For reference, below is an excerpt of their shipping policy:
Terroir Coffee wrote:All coffees are packaged in nitrogen flushed 12 oz bags within hours of roasting. We roast to order as much as humanly possible, and never ship coffee that's been roasted more than five days prior to your order date.
This is consistent with the reviewers' experience of delivery between 5 and 14 days post-roast. In all fairness, the shipment was the week prior to the July 4th weekend, so Terroir's regular delivery times may be slightly better than our experience.
Dan Kehn

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another_jim
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#114: Post by another_jim »

As far as I could ascertain, they have three different modes.
  • The GHH Select (not Terroir) coffees, an economy line meant for restaurants and offices, make no effort at extreme (for the industry, reasonable for us) freshness. They are roasted off site, in larger batches, and stored up to two weeks prior to shipping.
  • The high end, rare coffees are roasted only to cover existing orders, and orders for them are always delayed till there're enough for a roast.
  • The stock Terroir coffees, which have a more predictable demand, are roasted in house on a weekly or biweekly schedule, and orders are shipped as received. This probably makes for glitches around holidays.
I mean who's dumb enough to order espresso for the 4th of July? :wink:
Jim Schulman

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Peppersass
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#115: Post by Peppersass »

I buy stock Terroir coffees regularly, mostly SOs. I'm lucky enough to be one day away via UPS. I'd say about 90% of the time I get the coffee between one and three days post roast (that includes the one day for shipping.) Every now and then, however, I get coffee that's 6-7 days post roast. This is always disappointing, as I think the Terroir SOs are best 3-7 days post roast. It's not like the coffee is terrible after 7 days -- it's still very good. But it's not at its best and I know it can taste better.

To avoid this, I generally order Sunday or Monday, on the theory that I'll get that week's roast. But sometimes they must have coffee left over from the previous week and that's what I get. I wish it weren't so.

Very clearly, Daterra wasn't able to put it's best foot forward for these reviews. I sure hope George Howell reads these pages. Competitors are taking pains to ship fresher coffee of similar price and quality.

FWIW, I first tried Daterra about a year ago and liked it. But I wasn't as impressed by the next batch I ordered a few weeks later. That had nothing to do with staling, as I got both batchs a day or two after roast. It may very well have had to do with my beginner equipment and technique, or the fact that I was so enamoured of Terrior SOs that I didn't bother with their blends.

da gino
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#116: Post by da gino »

The other issue with Terrior's shipping is that if you order several types of beans, they aren't all roasted on the same day and they won't do more than one shipment so you are guaranteed not to get them all shipped on the day they are roasted. When you compare this to almost any other roaster I order from it is enough to make me think twice about ordering even though I like their coffee. Getting coffee 6-7 days post roast as Dick has or 14 days post roast even on the other coast is inexcusable. Compare this to Stumptown and Ecco, both of which shipped the coffee 3000 miles to get to me and yet got it to me two days post roast. Terrior is a small operation so they say it is hard for them to roast to order, but I'd far rather get fresh coffee and pay more than get older coffee and pay less. Perhaps they could at least offer an option of shipping each coffee on the day it is roasted for a slightly higher fee?

zin1953
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#117: Post by zin1953 »

I obviously cannot speak for Terroir, nor am I trying to, but -- rather than some "extra" or "higher" fee, why couldn't you just pay extra shipping -- and have them ship each coffee separately? Though I admit, the one time I ordered from them, the coffee took (IMHO) too long to arrive -- or rather, longer than I am used to -- and I haven't repeated my order.
A morning without coffee is sleep. -- Anon.

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da gino
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#118: Post by da gino »

Jason, not a bad idea, but if a roaster doesn't think shipping on the day of roast is essential then just on your own ordering all your coffee separately won't mean they are shipped the day they are roasted - just that you will pay more than necessary for shipping (for example if they roasted it Monday and you order Tuesday night then a roaster who doesn't ship coffees on the day they are roasted probably wouldn't think twice about shipping that order out on Wed or even later). In any event we are probably getting too far sidetracked into shipping rather than taste.

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#119: Post by malachi »

Peppersass wrote: Very clearly, Daterra wasn't able to put it's best foot forward for these reviews. I sure hope George Howell reads these pages. Competitors are taking pains to ship fresher coffee of similar price and quality.
I don't think that the taste of the Daterra as reviewed was the result of the freshness (or lack thereof) of the coffee.

I've now experimented with a fresher batch and the changes are incremental and mostly nuance.

I still prefer the hotter prep I detailed - which does now have a little more dynamic range (some simple lemon and lemon zest high notes). The marzipan notes were clearer, but less smooth and round and there was less chocolate in the cup.

It's still not very unique and kind of boring. Not a bad espresso in any way but not in the same league as the shot I remember Troels serving me. As with the prior batch, I could drink this day in and day out but would never find it exciting.


FWIW... in some ways I like the low temp extraction even less. While the sugars were less saccharine the acidity was overpowering (to my taste).


Perhaps "freshness" as the be-all-and-end-all is over-rated.
What's in the cup is what matters.

Richard
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#120: Post by Richard »

HB wrote:Obviously you have an advantage living in the same city as their roastery, especially compared to Chris who is located on the opposite side of the country.
While I appreciate what you are saying, it's unrelated to roasting and shipping dates. When I look at roasting-shipping dates, that's all I'm looking it. The fact that I get next-day delivery is a bonus, but even if I were 10 shipping days out the roasting-shipping dates would not change.

Generally speaking, my experience is that the Terroir-branded coffees are shipped on the roast date, occasionally the following day, and only on the rarest occasions later. Perhaps my experience is an anomaly -- I have no way of knowing that -- but I can only report what I experience.
-- Richard