Hi All - I don't want to derail the thread, but I am considering a Decent machine pretty seriously and I'm confused by the last few posts about mouth-feel not being on par with other machines. How is it that with the same beans/grind/water and the ability to adjust *all* the parameters of the extraction there's still something that effects mouth feel that can't be accounted for? If a Decent owner could chime in on their experience - I'm all ears. Also - I'm curious - for those that didn't get the Pro model, are you concerned about the warranty - it's the only difference I see between the + and the pro. Am I wrong on that? I run a crimina67 and am accustomed to bullet-proof machine...

It's definitely not bulletproof but there's no doubt in my mind that John and his team will get you sorted out if you run into any issues. Anybody who is on the basecamp forum would agree they are heavily invested in the success of the machine and satisfaction of their customers.

peacecup wrote:Isn't that one of the main reasons why lever machines are still so popular? At least I've always thought that.

I think that continuous pressure and flow are important for mouthfeel and body. Spring levers do this right.

But with the Decent - can't you manage that? I'm still confused how a certain machine can produce mouth-feel where another wouldn't with the same variables controlled. Water/Beans/Grind/Extraction - what am I missing?

I have been using a Decent for the past 16 months. It is a delight to use. Some users have experimented with changes in headspace to affect mouthfeel. I haven't felt any need or desire to experiment along those lines. Apparently reducing headspace seems to increase mouthfeel...

oly_puller wrote:But with the Decent - can't you manage that? I'm still confused how a certain machine can produce mouth-feel where another wouldn't with the same variables controlled. Water/Beans/Grind/Extraction - what am I missing?

The pump of the DE is pulsing, so pressure and flow are not smooth and continuous. KvdW uses springs as shock absorbers in his PPIC and IM to smoothen out pressure and flow. KvdW delivers premium body and mouthfeel.

r7 -- So, I'm wondering, do you think the mouthfeel is comparable to espresso from other machines, or is mouthfeel not important to you?

For $60-100 many have resolved this mouthfeel, however keep in mind this is very subjective and most don't feel a need to make the change. The ability to move between all these various brew methods is beyond comparison.

Re: the "mouthfeel" question with the DE1. Sloppy pucks were often a talking point on the owners forum and it was discovered that adding a spacer between the dispersion screen and the shower screen resulted in some flow improvements and also created drier pucks - similar to (say) your average E61 machine. My own experience of adding spacers was a "thicker" shot with more crema and a more 'chocolate bomb' sort of taste. Very similar to what I was used to with my previous machine. The feeling was ah, familiarity returns. But there was a price to pay (for me) for pucks that pop out and pours with a nice crema, thicker mouthfeel and the chocolate bomb. Subtle flavours I had grown to appreciate with the DE were now missing. The spectrum of flavours seemed to have changed. Subtle fruit flavours and nuanced flavours I don't have the vocabulary to describe were missing. So I removed 1 spacer (of 2) which gave me wet pucks, but not a slurry, less so called mouthfeel, but more of the flavour spectrum I had grown to appreciate. So if I had to choose mouthfeel or flavour and wet pucks I would choose the latter every time. The great thing about the DE is that you CAN actually test these things out for yourself and then decide because it's all about taste preferences and not fixed rules that apply to everybody.