Good day everyone. New machine owner here.

Been reading some few topics about using espresso machine with rotary pump directly to plumb in to 5 gallon water container vs. using flojet. Unfortunately there is no way i can purchase a flojet locally so i will have to find way to import it and that could take time. So i was searching for some alternatives that i could use and found this water booster pump. To a non expert like me, they look like they would do what a flojet does and suck water/create pressure.

Will this work for both Lelit bianca v3 and la spaziale mini vivaldi ll? (I'm not yet sure how or if it will work but the machine repair center told me they could modify the mini vivaldi(vibratory pump) so it can be plumb in to a 5 gallon water container).

Here are the 2 water booster that i saw:

Pump 1: 38L/m




Pump 2:




Here is the setup that i was thinking:



Please do comment if there is anything wrong with the setup as i will forward this to the machine repair center and see if it is possible. Thank you.

Neither espresso machine you list needs pressure at its input. The machine's pressure pump provides all the pressure you need. Having pressure at the input of most e61 machines (e.g., Bianca), permits using the e61's inbuilt middle lever position preinfusion. But, this is something you'll not likely use, as the Bianca has complete flow control.

In another thread, Direct plumbing without an extravagant setup, I opined that the rotary pump in most high-end machines should be capable of lifting from a jug on the floor (i.e., no boost pump needed). Another member posted that he does exactly that, with no issues. Both of us mentioned the need to be sure the pump does not run dry by using a one-way valve. I suggested that the one way valve be installed in the supply jug (i.e., a foot valve). Installing it at your machine would also work, but might be prone to failure if there is any small air leak point between the valve and the jug. You don't want the machine's pump to run when dry.

General wisdom is that a vibe pump machine will not lift from a jug on the floor to the machine. I'm not sure if that's true, as I vaguely recall my Magister Stella manual suggested otherwise. However, some folks who need more than a single reservoir of water have successfully run their vibe machines from a large counter-top reservoir, by simply extending the two hoses that normally go into the machines' reservoir. Perhaps this would be a simple solution for you. Another countertop option is to keep the machine's reservoir in service and add a second countertop reservoir. The two reservoirs need to be connected via a primed single hose of any diameter. Water will automatically flow from the external reservoir to the internal one by siphon action.

Hi Nunas thank you for the reply and linking the other thread. I just read it and have two follow-up questions that i would really appreciate if you can answer.

1. Assuming i have a check valve between the water gallon and the machine, does quickly removing the hose from the water gallon to change it introduces air? Or should i not remove the hose and just manually refill the water gallon?

2. If both my machine does not need this water booster pump, does using it at least help the pump? (i read a few threads directly using a water gallon does harm the machine pump a little bit) or does it just complicate things? since it is technically not a flojet.

There is an article on this site which details a setup that keeps the stock water tank in the espresso machine but uses a float (in it) to activate a pump to add water to the tank as needed. Perhaps you or someone else can find it. The advantage of this is that the tank machine is getting water from the tank as designed, but the refill from the 5 gallon bottle is automatic. That's what I would try.

Nunas wrote:Neither espresso machine you list needs pressure at its input.

Agreed. IIRC, a Procon rotary pump is spec'd at a 6' vertical lift; as long as the inlet tubing has a check valve/foot valve to avoid air being introduced, you're good to go. I don't know how much lift a vibratory pump is spec'd at, but I'd opt for on the counter.

jgood wrote:There is an article on this site which details a setup that keeps the stock water tank in the espresso machine but uses a float...

Here you go: Quit Filling That Water Tank!

jjgamer218 wrote:Hi Nunas thank you for the reply and linking the other thread. I just read it and have two follow-up questions that i would really appreciate if you can answer. 1. Assuming i have a check valve between the water gallon and the machine, does quickly removing the hose from the water gallon to change it introduces air? Or should i not remove the hose and just manually refill the water gallon?

Getting a little air into the line won't hurt the pump. The danger is if the hose becomes empty of water, then the pump will lose prime and run dry. Once dry, some pumps will not self prime, some will. I've no idea if the one in the Bianca self primes, but even if it does, until it sucks water up the hose, it's running dry. BTW, as I commented earlier, I think the better place for the one way is at the end of the hose in the external tank.

2. If both my machine does not need this water booster pump, does using it at least help the pump? (i read a few threads directly using a water gallon does harm the machine pump a little bit) or does it just complicate things? since it is technically not a flojet.

You don't need the booster pump. Nor do you need a Flojet, for what I understand you are trying to do. An external pump is only needed if you are not using the machine's internal reservoir, that is, your machine is hooked to the water mains. If not the mains, then that's where the Flojet comes in; it substitutes for not having water main pressure. The most often cited use is an espresso cart. So, I seriously doubt that adding a boost pump would make any meaningful difference to the life of your pump.

Nunas wrote:An external pump is only needed if you are not using the machine's internal reservoir, that is, your machine is hooked to the water mains. If not the mains, then that's where the Flojet comes in; it substitutes for not having water main pressure.

Can you please explain this? Really sorry as my english knowledge is not that good. Do you mean a flojet is only required if i am not using the machine's internal reservoir. But what do you mean by "that is, your machine is hooked to the water mains. If not the mains"? Because my lelit bianca v3 will not be connected to the mains(i assume "mains" is main water line). I will be using it with a 5 gallon water container.

jgood wrote:There is an article on this site which details a setup that keeps the stock water tank in the espresso machine but uses a float (in it) to activate a pump to add water to the tank as needed. Perhaps you or someone else can find it. The advantage of this is that the tank machine is getting water from the tank as designed, but the refill from the 5 gallon bottle is automatic. That's what I would try.

HB wrote:Agreed. IIRC, a Procon rotary pump is spec'd at a 6' vertical lift; as long as the inlet tubing has a check valve/foot valve to avoid air being introduced, you're good to go. I don't know how much lift a vibratory pump is spec'd at, but I'd opt for on the counter.


Here you go: Quit Filling That Water Tank!

Hi HB and jgood appreciate the reply. I read the link you gave me but it uses direct water line to refill the stock water tank of the espresso machine. I'm not sure how it would work if i use a 5 gallon water bottle that is placed under the counter. Is this where i should use this water booster pumps?

jjgamer218 wrote: Can you please explain this? Really sorry as my english knowledge is not that good. Do you mean a flojet is only required if i am not using the machine's internal reservoir. But what do you mean by "that is, your machine is hooked to the water mains. If not the mains"? Because my lelit bianca v3 will not be connected to the mains(i assume "mains" is main water line). I will be using it with a 5 gallon water container.

Okay, let me take another run at your thread.
1 -- A boost pump is not needed on any machine that uses the internal reservoir.
2 -- A boost pump is not needed on any machine that uses an external reservoir at counter-top level, or an auxiliary reservoir connected to the internal reservoir via a siphon hose.
3 -- A boost pump is not needed on any rotary pump machine that does not use the internal reservoir and which draws water from an external reservoir located on the floor or in a cabinet near the machine (see #6). It may be advisable to add a foot valve (one way valve on the end of the pickup tube). It is debatable whether a vibe pump machine has enough strength to draw water from a reservoir that is on the floor.
4 -- A boost pump is not needed for any machine that is connected to the water mains (the water that comes into your house under pressure).
5 -- A boost pump added in any of the above scenarios for rotary pump machines is unlikely to be a benefit or prolong the life of the machine's pump.
6 -- A boost pump would be necessary on a rotary pump machine that is not plumbed in, and which draws water from a remote reservoir. For example, a reservoir located in a basement, as most rotary pumps in espresso machines will only suck 5-6 feet. Note, that the pump should be located with the reservoir, not the machine, as most pumps move water "uphill" much better than they suck water.
7 -- An e61 machine, plumbed to the water mains, has the ability to wet the puck under low pressure, by moving the lever a little above the middle position. Likewise, an e61 machine plumbed to an external reservoir that delivers pressure (i.e., a boost pump or a pressure pump, such as a Flojet), also has this ability.
That's about all I can think of. I hope you understand.

Thank you so much for that Nunas. I'm saving this reply for future reference. Really appreciate it. Few follow up question if you don't mind.

1. When you say "internal reservoir" in #1. Is that the machine's internal reservoir where you pull out, add water then put back in?

2. Is boost pump needed or not need for a machine that has been modified (mini vivaldi ii has no plumb in option) to directly get water from a 5 gallon water tank instead of the internal reservoir that you pull out to refill water? assuming that the water gallon is placed directly below the counter. Its clear that my bianca will have no problem but just want to make sure with the vivaldi.

3. In #7 "the ability to wet the puck" is this one of benefit of using boost pump with my bianca that is plumb to external reservoir(water gallon)?