Synesso Cyncra Needle Valve Mod

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
DucaiMann
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#1: Post by DucaiMann »

So after giving it some thought, and speaking a bit with Jake about the mod, he helped me walk through adding a needle valve onto the Cyncra one group I just rebuilt!

The mod is very straight forward. We are going to add the needle valve here, right after the heat exchanger on the left side of the machine.


There will be a 90 degree fitting that will allow me to add a copper pipe going to the needle valve, and then the return copper pipe will go to the T fitting after the T gets rotated to face the front of the machine.



Nothing else should need to be done in order to have the needle valve function. (again, thank you Jake!)


I ended up buying two needle valves as I want to see if we can get one that gives me the full range within a turn or two.
https://www.clippard.com/part/GNV-4K
https://clippard.com/part/MNV-1K

pcrussell50
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#2: Post by pcrussell50 »

Jake and I and a handful of others use the MNV. I find that I get all the range I need in a turn or less. Most espresso at full flow will be 6-7ml/s. Yet my rotary pump (Procon 1) can flow at least 20ml/s. And I bet yours would too depending on obstructions/gicleurs etc... Jake says my gicleur is 1mm. I get 20ml/s at three full turns open. But in any case I've ever encountered, I will get 9 bar waaay before that. Well within 180deg or so. So I never come close to opening it a full three turns. And it may flow even more than 20 if I open it further. Frankly, I've never tried. The point being that almost all of what you will actually use, watching your pressure gauge and even more so, watching the flow coming out your bottomless, will be easily within a single turn. And most likely even within 180-210 degrees. And finally, a "slower" needle will be easier to control/less sensitive at the all important low flow ranges.

HTH

-Peter
LMWDP #553

DucaiMann (original poster)
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#3: Post by DucaiMann (original poster) replying to pcrussell50 »

I ordered the MNV as well, but getting it to fit properly with copper is going to be a bit of a challenge given the fitting options for #10-32.

Since the needle is going to take a minute to arrive, I stopped by the HD to see if I could T into where I planned and with a few off the shelf parts, I was able to make a loop with some 1/4" copper tube and some compression fittings.



pcrussell50
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#4: Post by pcrussell50 »

Got it. Jake explained to me why you might have to go with the bigger one. Makes sense. Have you planned out where on your machine you will reach to get at the knob?

Super cool project. The Cyncra was always a dream machine for me before I discovered I must have flow control. Pending your results, it still may be. :P

-Peter
LMWDP #553

DucaiMann (original poster)
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#5: Post by DucaiMann (original poster) replying to pcrussell50 »

We faced the copper pipe so it goes to the front. In theory, we should be able to mount it right on the face of the machine!

A DotShot is also on the way.

DucaiMann (original poster)
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#6: Post by DucaiMann (original poster) »

So I ended up with the incorrect valve, but I'm going to give it a go anyways. I think if this valve works with the adjustment range within 1/4 turn, we should be ok. I printed off a handle to allow for more precise movements for testing. Hopefully my favorite orange hardware store has the fittings I need!




pcrussell50
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#7: Post by pcrussell50 »

Whoa! Now that is a handle! Really, it's almost a lever. Since Synesso is American, "Big Orange Racing Supply" ought to have all the ordinary fittings and reducers. Good luck. Ready to see some video clips. Did you say you have a group pressure gauge? Not required, but nice to have for this kind of extraction.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

DucaiMann (original poster)
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#8: Post by DucaiMann (original poster) replying to pcrussell50 »

Unfortunately I do not have a group pressure gauge. I wish I did!

My truck is in the shop so if I get it back today, I should be able to pick up the parts and have her going this evening.

DucaiMann (original poster)
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#9: Post by DucaiMann (original poster) »

Ok so I picked up some fittings and slapped it together but didn't have any time to do anything else. Just ran a couple initial tests for kicks.




pcrussell50
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#10: Post by pcrussell50 »

Looks good. Half turn full pump flow is about what to expect for a "normal" machine at open flow.

And the quarter turn at line pressure is a pretty good default pre infusion flow too.

One day you might look into what valve position it takes to get ~1.5ml/s flow with the pump on. That way there is no real need to use line pressure. You will have more minute control of flow from beginning to end, without the pressure jump from turning on the pump. I realize that not everyone does it that way. I only use line pressure for warming the cup and flushing the group afterwards. That's just me though. There is no right or wrong way with this.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

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