Slow rising brew pressure and non-working steam gauge on Profitec Pro 700

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
koaly

#1: Post by koaly »

Hello everyone,
I am new in this forum, but I make espresso for 5 years on Profitec Pro 700 and Ceado e37s.
I'd appreciate your hints for a solution on problem with a pump reaching brew pressure too slow (10+ seconds) and non-working steam gauge/sensor.
We do not drink cappuccino and therefore the steam boiler was off for 5 years after the initial test. I use the machine only with the water tanked and RO water. I backflush the group everyday and once a week with a detergent. I disassemble and clean / lubricate the group once a month or two, once I hear and feel the lever goes not smoothly.
I have found out recently that by brewing espresso the machine failed reaching the required brew pressure quickly and it takes about 10 second to rise to 9 bars. The gauge arrow has been twitching and the pump whined before the 9 bars achieved.
Here is the video of how it worked.
Then some time later I found another problem. After I switched on the steam boiler it heated up to 125 degrees Celsius and produced steam as expected, but the gauge showed no pressure at all.
What I did. I removed the upper, side and rear walls to see what's going on inside. There was nothing wrong except the housing of the PID, which separated from the internal part and two screws went out with some plastic. No wires or connectors went visually out.
For the brew pressure I assumed that there is a kind of air blockage in the pump and I need to prime or bleed it. I connected the my reverse osmosis water tap to the water tank of the machine with a silicone pipe like in the video of Whole Latte Love
And with this setup the machine reproduced the perfect brew pressure, reaching 9 bar within a second. Nevertheless, after the return to water tank use the problem of slow brew pressure remained, but appeared to reach the pressure a bit quicker, within 5 seconds.
I am going to connect the machine to water supply and it seems to be a solution for the brew pressure, but I have no idea what to do with the steam gauge.
Please advise.

heytchap

#2: Post by heytchap »

Edit: I watched a different WLL video some how. That one has FC. I'm not sure how I got there from the link.

I suppose you can disregard everything below.

The whole latte love one has flow control and a different spring inside the e61 unit, so it immediately goes to full pressure. I experimented with both springs in my pro 600, both the original which takes about 8-10s to hit full pressure and the flow control, instant 100% spring and opted to keep the original with my flow control. There is a delay while a chamber fills in the machine which allows for preinfusion.

There's nothing wrong here from what I see, you just had a different spring and setup than they have in the WLL video.

Your pump is _very_ loud for a rotary pump though.

I'm not sure about your gauges though. Perhaps someone else will know.

User avatar
HB
Admin

#3: Post by HB »

koaly wrote: After I switched on the steam boiler it heated up to 125 degrees Celsius and produced steam as expected, but the gauge showed no pressure at all.
My guess is the thin copper tubing leading to the gauge is plugged, likely on the steam boiler end. Try removing the tubing and soaking it in vinegar. You should be able to blow through it. The steam boiler temperature is controlled by a thermocouple / PID, so the steam gauge is there mostly to confirm the boiler is heating as expected.
Dan Kehn

koaly (original poster)

#4: Post by koaly (original poster) »

heytchap wrote:Edit: I watched a different WLL video some how. That one has FC. I'm not sure how I got there from the link.

I suppose you can disregard everything below.

The whole latte love one has flow control and a different spring inside the e61 unit, so it immediately goes to full pressure. I experimented with both springs in my pro 600, both the original which takes about 8-10s to hit full pressure and the flow control, instant 100% spring and opted to keep the original with my flow control. There is a delay while a chamber fills in the machine which allows for preinfusion.

There's nothing wrong here from what I see, you just had a different spring and setup than they have in the WLL video.

Your pump is _very_ loud for a rotary pump though.

I'm not sure about your gauges though. Perhaps someone else will know.
@heytchap, many thanks for the response.
By the last group maintenance, I figured out that the shaft worn out too much and the mushroom valve lost all chrome plating. Then I replaced them including all brass parts from the new spare E61 group of Profitec pro 600. Probably I also replaced springs, but I do not remember. Could it be that springs taken from another E61 group led to such jumping brew pressure?
I am not sure, considering that right after the parts replacement everything worked as 4,5 years before, only the lever became a bit tighter. I never had a case of brew pressure rising for 10+ seconds to 9 bars during these years of use. I assumed that it could be air bubble or blockage somewhere in the pump. And it became much louder than before as well.
A t-piece for connecting Pro 700 to RO line is on the way from China and I hope to get rid of this pressure problem after the water is supplied directly and under some pressure. At least the testing showed good results.

JRising
Team HB

#5: Post by JRising »

It looks and sounds to me like there is something restricting flow to your pump. If not, then the pump might be in bad shape.
"Pre-infusion chamber spring" aside, if the pump is running and supplied with all the water it can draw, it shouldn't sound like that and it should create enough flow for the pump gauge to show within a couple seconds... A running pump supplied with water creates flow immediately.

koaly (original poster)

#6: Post by koaly (original poster) replying to JRising »

@JRising,
Thanks, I also thought something is hindering the water supply from the water tank. I think that I will check all pipes / connectors, which lead the water to the pump to see what I can find there. I already checked the ball valve in the tank, and it looks okay.
Nevertheless, I cannot believe that the rotary pump is going to die after 12k shots.

I checked also the actual pressure in the group by screwing in a gauge directly to a portafilter. This gauge remained after I sold the old Gaggia, which was needed for manual pressure adjustments in OPV. The pump gauge shows around 8.5 bars and brew group gauge not more than 7.5 bars. Is that normal?
I repeated this multiple times and sometimes the pressure in the brew group increased to 9+ bars, meaning more that the pump setting.
Here is a video

koaly (original poster)

#7: Post by koaly (original poster) »

HB wrote:My guess is the thin copper tubing leading to the gauge is plugged, likely on the steam boiler end. Try removing the tubing and soaking it in vinegar. You should be able to blow through it. The steam boiler temperature is controlled by a thermocouple / PID, so the steam gauge is there mostly to confirm the boiler is heating as expected.
Hi HB, thanks. I hope that it is only clogged. Although, it's weird as I used the steam boiler only a couple of times with RO water and always drained the water after that. It was always off.
Is there anything I have to consider in addition for the cleaning of the tubing? Any replacement of o-rings needed? The machine is 5 years old.
Thanks!

User avatar
HB
Admin

#8: Post by HB »

koaly wrote:The pump gauge shows around 8.5 bars and brew group gauge not more than 7.5 bars. Is that normal?
Here's a screen capture showing the difference:



The onboard pump pressure gauge is tee'd immediately after the pump while the brewhead one is downstream of the gicleur; I'd expect the latter to read lower than the former, at least until it's fully pressurized. If you want a more accurate reading from the brewhead, you'll need to let some water flow with a needle valve.
koaly wrote:Any replacement of o-rings needed? The machine is 5 years old.
Generally speaking, I don't replace gaskets and o-rings unless there's evidence of leaking/bypass. But if you've been using it daily for 5 years, you may not be far from needing to replace the E61 seals.
Dan Kehn