Sage / Breville Oracle Touch- hot water leaking when brewing espresso

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
Misarahk

#1: Post by Misarahk »

My Oracle Touch machine has started to leak from the hot water spout when express is brewed.

I have changed the hot water solenoid as there was now hot water coming at all. Now the hot water is leaking when espresso is being brewed.

When brewing americano water comes twice.

Any advice what to look for. I have also cleaned the three way solenoid and it was quite condition.

WWWired

#2: Post by WWWired »

Hi Misarahk :)

Do you have any photos of:
(1) The new solenoid
(2) The old solenoid
(3) The installed new solenoid

Is your Breville Oracle Touch pre or post 2018?

Sent you a PM . . . :)

Sthomp

#3: Post by Sthomp »

Were you able to fix this issue? I've been dealing with the same problem. No change when I changed the solenoid. I can hear it rapidly opening and closing while pulling a shot and hot water is coming from the water spout.

Sthomp

#4: Post by Sthomp »


Misarahk (original poster)

#5: Post by Misarahk (original poster) »

The machine doesn't give any errors in the service mode.

It is just less intense water coming out when espresso is being brewed.

I will see if errors will appear in the service menu in a few days.

I also changed one seal in the boiler as it was leaking. The leaking stopped now the only issue that remains is the water leakage.

I will post later today the picture of the old and new solenoids.

WWWired

#6: Post by WWWired »

Misarahk wrote:The machine doesn't give any errors in the service mode.
It is just less intense water coming out when espresso is being brewed.
. . .
Fascinating, you appear to have a leak related to your 2-way hot-water solenoid, but also an increase in resistance (the "less intense water" thingee) within the Brew Hydraulic system pathway. A possible cause could be development of a low-water state in your brew boiler due to exposure to the atmosphere (through a not quite perfect seal in the 2-way hot-water solenoid) resulting in lowering of the vapour/steam temperatures (its higher in a fixed volume sealed system) in your brew boiler. As steam and vapor develops in your Brew Boiler, the water level can drop and this can result in unusual readings on the probes in the brew boiler. Whether this is occurring should be resolved as more information is developed. Definitely a good removal, inspection, and cleaning of the 2-way solenoid might be a starting point. More info will increasingly light the way and there are some superb diagnosticians how are experts in these systems who will also add in with some correct info relating to the above.

Photo Credit: tyoden with annotations added by wwwired
. . . and here is a chart for a vibratory pump relationship between "Flow rate" and "pressure" . . .

Misarahk wrote: . . .
I also changed one seal in the boiler as it was leaking. The leaking stopped now the only issue that remains is the water leakage.
Might be worth changing all o-rings while doing one. Often a seal-leak can be imperceptible or intermittent (as pressure rises and falls). Consider doing all o-rings/seals as preventative/regular maintenance annually or biennially (every other year) if inspection warrants. Any opening to the atmosphere, however imperceptibly tiny, can lower the boiling point of water (production of steam and vapor at lower temperatures) and throw off the measurements your boiler probes/sensors are getting. All your o-ring seals plus the possible 2-way hot-water solenoid not seating properly could be sources of atmospheric exposure of your brew hydraulic pathway.
Misarahk wrote: . . .
I will post later today the picture of the old and new solenoids.
That will be perfect! Will definitely spark up the experts here who will surely be able to offer insight with some extra information to light the way :)

Leaking from your hot-water pathway could be centered on the control provided by your hot-water 2-way solenoid, located to the right of your Brew Boiler, anterior (in front of) your Steam Boiler (see annotated photo above). Possible causes for water getting by your 2-way solenoid may have to do with the plunger/piston not fully seating and forming a seal when de-energized. Causes for the 2-way solenoid not seating fully may be: (1) Debris; (2) Mineral/Scale buildup; (3) Broken compensation spring (that pushed the plunger back into its sealing position); (4) Coil fault/failure (less likely). There are few others but more rare. If a few descale cycles don't clear up the issue, removal and complete disassembly and cleaning of the hot-water 2-way solenoid to assess its integrity will reveal the issue. The Coil Block can be tested after if there appears to be no fault with the plunger/piston/spring/seal-seat inside the hot-water 2-way solenoid :)

Here's a pretty great video by YouTube Poster "Jonathan Audy" showing how to get at your hot-water 2-way solenoid for disassembly and cleaning :)
Credit: Jonathan Audy, YouTube

Here's a few pictures of a 2-way solenoid from a different machine but similar solenoid design (notice how mineral scale can build up internally within the solenoids components) . . .


Sthomp

#7: Post by Sthomp »

Great video off the brew solenoid...I wish one would have been made disassembling the hot water solenoid. :) I mistakenly, initially suspected the brew valve to be my problem and changed it. Along with the issue of water flowing through the tap while brewing, my machine will occasionally make this sound of the solenoid rapidly opening and closing [youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUPAgaQhE[/youtube] The video didn't catch it, but they're will be water dribbling from the tap when it's doing this. It's only intermittent and I've not been able to catch it happening with the top off. The cycling will continue after shutdown for a few seconds, making me think it may be more related to pressure rather than an electrical issue. I've not yet been able to source a new solenoid with the same PN printed on the side. If anyone knows off a replacement, it would be much appreciated! If I can't find one, I'm considering removing it and trying to service it.