Profitec Pro 600 - No Pressure/Water from Group

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
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#1: Post by PIXIllate »

I woke up this morning to an odd issue. I normally do a 15 second pull into a blind basket to start the day as I find it helps with my first shot running slow. Normally the pressure gauge on the group goes up to 10 bar. This morning it didn't. I checked and there was almost no water flowing from the group when I ran it without a portafilter in place. I could get water from the hot water tap but little to nothing from the group. My steam pressure gauge was also running around 1 bar and it normally is at 2 all the time.

I checked to see if there was water in the tank (there was) and that the float had not come loose (it hadn't). I did remember someone had mentioned having issues with the fitting on the bottom of the tank not seating correctly so I lifted the tank out and put it back in. I was then able to see pressure build at the grouphead and there was water flowing, for a minute. Then it stopped again. I took the tank out a second time and more carefully and firmly put it back in place.

Everything now seems to be working but I'd like to figure out exactly what caused this as I hadn't removed the tank from the machine in quite some time. I usually just fill it with water while it is in the machine. There does not seem to be anything to tighten on the fitting attached to the removable tank. Is there something I can tighten if I take the machine apart? This is something I have not done yet in the almost two months I've owned it.



#2: Post by Bluenoser »

I'd try to empty the tank and really check that valve for some crud.. almost seems like something got down in there and choked the water going into the pump.. taking out and reseating seemed to fix for a bit, then it may have clogged up again.. I take my tank out all the time.. and in 2 years never had such an issue (assume same exact tank mechanism).. likely something simple. There is also a filter in that line somewhere.. you might want to get a parts manual.. usually someone has one .. and see what elements are in the water path from the tank to the pump..

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PIXIllate (original poster)
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#3: Post by PIXIllate (original poster) » replying to Bluenoser »

I'm going to do a deeper dive in the next few days. It can't be that complicated and all of my shots pulled fine today after I re-seated it the second time.


#4: Post by nahau »

Does your machine have a float in the tank? Perhaps the reed switch that monitors the float is a bit flaky. You might take the reed switch out and give it a few whacks. I actually had to do that on my Andreja until I disabled that circuit altogether. Your machine may disable something if the machine thinks there's no water in the reservoir and when you removed/replaced it, it triggered the reed switch and enabled something (probably in the gicar) and it started working again.

PIXIllate (original poster)
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#5: Post by PIXIllate (original poster) » replying to nahau »

Thanks. It's not the float. I checked that first and in my machine it actually shuts off when the water level gets that low. It has to be something to do with the metal fitting between the removable tank and the machine. Everything has been working fine since. I am going to have a closer look when I have a chance.

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#6: Post by PIXIllate (original poster) »

Just following up on this in case it comes up for anyone else.

I was flushing before a shot this morning and noticed the flow in my shot mirror was much slower than usual. Not no flow as before but visually less than I am use to seeing. I pulled the tank out but this didn't seem to do anything this time.

I decided to get out my original flow chart that I made when I got the machine to test the water debt. At 1-1/4 turns open my flow rate should be something like 142-144ml/20 seconds which is about 7.1-7.2 ml/sec or basically stock flow rate on a vibe pump E61.

The numbers I was getting were wildly off at 110-90-83-95-66 all over 20 seconds. I dropped the shower screen even though I had cleaned it only a few days ago. There was a little to wipe off but not much. Then I started thinking about the flow control knob. I haven't really used it as of yet so it just kind of sits at the 1-1/4 turn position aside from the odd experiment. I ran it through it's full range from totally closed to totally open a few times and then ran the water debit test again. I'm now getting 140-144ml/20 seconds or roughly my 7ml/sec stock flow rate again.

Not sure what could be going on here but I'll be keeping an eye on it from now on.


#7: Post by nahau »

LOL! Sorry, I have to laugh! Everyone (myself included) missed the "Flow Control" you have listed under your user name on the right side. Just goes to show that that information can sometimes be priceless! Glad to hear the machine is apparently running fine now. :D

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PIXIllate (original poster)
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#8: Post by PIXIllate (original poster) » replying to nahau »

Is there something about the flow control knob on the ECM/Profitec machines that is a known problem? My flow control was physically in the correct 1-1/4 turns open position but the flow was greatly diminished. All I did was spin it through its full range from closed to open a few times and then I returned it back to the exact same 1-1/4 open position and was once again back to the correct 7ml/sec flow rate.

I don't understand what in the mechanics of the flow control valve could change while it is the same physical position. I would greatly appreciate it if you can explain it to me.


#9: Post by nahau »

No, I don't know anything about the flow control. I just thought it funny that we all missed to notice you had one... especially since the problem was flow through the group head. I would expect it shouldn't change settings just sitting there, but it's a jet (meant to say) needle valve, so possibly easier to clog with scale or something. You probably just cleared out some deposits by messing with it.

PIXIllate (original poster)
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#10: Post by PIXIllate (original poster) » replying to nahau »

I hope it's not scale. I've only had the machine for 2 months and have been putting BWT filtered water through it the entire time. The pH of my tap water is just under 7 to start with so I was hoping not to create much need for descaling. I've been waiting to do my first chemical back flush because of the need to disassemble and regrease everything afterwards. I've been told once every 4-6 months for e61 machines. I do religious daily backflushing at the start and end of each day. Guess the only way to know would be to take it apart, which I'll have to do at some point.

I wonder if it could be something other than scale?