Having given up on shoehorning a mercury Pstat into the Urania I thought I'd try a Sirai. Still no go, even elbowed directly off the end plate it hits the side of the case. From what I remember the rating of the XP-110 Mater is 15A. As the element being installed is a 220V 15A I can run it through a relay to the element. Stefano also has a CEME that looks like a good candidate but shows no amperage rating, nor can I find the spec elsewhere. The CEME I'm looking at is the adjustable deadband version. Also need a Pstat for the Prestina. It has a 1kW element so either should work if the CEME is rated high enough.

Any insight as to which of the two would be more appropriate would be greatly appreciated, as well as any other recommendations.

Thanks

. . . I thought I'd try a Sirai . . .

There are two different Sirai pstats, one is about 2/3's the size of the other. Exactly what model were you trying?

I would choose a MA-TER and wire it to switch an SSR if you can find the room. I have not seen a CEME switch an element directly, regardless of voltage.

You can use the original, 30A Sirai in the Prestina although it's a tight fit. I bought the 20A Sirai recently but returned it. The build quality is nowhere near to that of the original model. Re the Urania, what's the wattage of the element? At 220 v. even a 2.5 kw heater draws less than 12 amps.

Thanks guys, Mater(MA-TER) it is. I was testing fit with the big Sirai and main problem was width. It looks like Mr Pratt has a 220V 1500W element for the Urania and in any case will use a relay. No real good thermally conductive places to mount an SSR so would go with click box cubes. Used a setup like that in a Giotto I refurbed and with the cases on could hardly hear it. Much more quiet than a Sarai.

Does the deadband adjustment CEME justify the modest price increase and is there much build quality difference between it and the Mater? One benefit to the Mater is you can just swap out the microswitch.

I know of no one who has adjusted the deadband on a CEME, nor do I see the reason to do so. They are typically tighter than a MA-TER but this is nitpicking.

You really need an SSR vice some mechanical relay.

David - I don't know the full story, but I've been seeing vendor pics of MaTer xp110's stamped with 21(8)250~ which appear to have a 21 amp rating. See this pic from Stefano's site: https://www.espressocare.com/assets/upl ... 344035.jpg . Might be worth looking into.

I've had good luck with my 15 amp rated CEME but then I've always had a separate relay doing the element current switching. I've never messed with the deadband adjustment on mine.

erics wrote:I know of no one who has adjusted the deadband on a CEME, nor do I see the reason to do so. They are typically tighter than a MA-TER but this is nitpicking.

You really need an SSR vice some mechanical relay.

Will stick with a Mater. I take it you are advising an SSR over electro-mechanical relay. What are the pluses and minuses of both? The only place to mount an SSR would be an the inside of the backsplash and I'm not keen on drilling it for screws. The frame is powder coated. Heat sinking the SSR is doable, but further complicates installation.

Pat - According to MA-TER's site the XP-110 is rated at 16A at 250V, so would have a lower spec at 110V. http://www.ma-ter.it/uk_generatori.htm. So a relay is a very good idea in any case.

I take it you are advising an SSR over electro-mechanical relay.

Absolutely.

I also know of no MA-TER pstat (for US operations) that controls a heating element directly but that one needs a "grain of salt". I am a big fan of having the pstat control an SSR which, in turn, controls the heating element.

I have been following this forum for over 10 years now and have seen but one instance of an SSR failure. My Anita is 11 years old and the SSR is still original. Whereas, electro-mechanical relay failures are almost an everyday adventure. But to sorta answer your question, SSR's tend to fail closed (ugh!) and relays, well, I just don't know.

cuppajoe wrote: Pat - According to MA-TER's site the XP-110 is rated at 16A at 250V, so would have a lower spec at 110V. http://www.ma-ter.it/uk_generatori.htm. So a relay is a very good idea in any case.

Actually, no; it is just a switch. It's rated for a current of 16A at any voltage up to 250v. Adding a relay won't hurt anything, but does add something else in the circuit that could fail.

cuppajoe wrote:Pat - According to MA-TER's site the XP-110 is rated at 16A at 250V, so would have a lower spec at 110V.

As Bill noted, that amp rating would be for up to 250V, and would be about the same at 110V. But my point is that these XP110's come in a variety that is not reflected by Ma-Ter's web site. They used to typically be marked "15A-125/250Vac", then many were marked "16(4)250~" which is the standard marking for a 16 amp resistive load rating up to 250V AC. But that XP110 on Stefano's and other vendor sites is clearly marked "21(8)250~" which would indicate a switch rated for a resistive load up to 21 amp.

Based on what I've seen on this site, I think the majority of the ECM Italy and Rocket domestic machines in the past came with 15 and 16 amp Ma-Ter XP110's that were wired so as to directly control the full element current. Of course, they did often burn out after a few years, and newer Rockets went to Sirai. Now it appears that the latest type V Rockets are getting rid of pStat's altogether - they're just putting PIDs and SSRs in all of them, even the HX Giottos (see https://rocket-espresso.com/assets/2017 ... -specs.pdf )