Outboarding a Pump and Water Choice

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
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mohninme

#1: Post by mohninme »

Hi

I am preparing to go silent and install a rotary outboard pump. I have already purchased a 1/3 hp motor, rotary pump, SSR and a delay timer. I am now gathering the plumbing components and am finding that all the SS braided hoses at the plumbing stores have insufficient pressure ratings and sub par connectors for usage between the pump and the espresso machine.

I am wondering what folks are using out there for this part.

Thx
Michael

Marcelnl
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#2: Post by Marcelnl »

I'm using a rotary pump w electric motor to fill the boiler. I'm using the braided SS hoses without a problem, but that may be different at much higher brew pressure. I suspect they suffer more from sustained heat (plastic inside) than the pressure itself. Are you planning to use the pump for brew pressure?

I would suggest a company like Eriks
LMWDP #483

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JohnB.
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#3: Post by JohnB. »

http://www.espressoparts.com offers several stainless line options in various lengths..
LMWDP 267

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mohninme (original poster)

#4: Post by mohninme (original poster) »

The pump will both fill the boiler and operate at brew pressure.
Michael

pcrussell50

#5: Post by pcrussell50 »

mohninme wrote:Hi

I am preparing to go silent and install a rotary outboard pump. I have already purchased a 1/3 hp motor, rotary pump, SSR and a delay timer. I am now gathering the plumbing components and am finding that all the SS braided hoses at the plumbing stores have insufficient pressure ratings and sub par connectors for usage between the pump and the espresso machine.

I am wondering what folks are using out there for this part.

Thx
I did this. Pump outboard under the kitchen sink for now. Later I might put it under the floor entirely, where the water comes for the kitchen refrigerator. Are you using the 1/3hp motor on a Procon 1 from the ebay beverage equipment seller from Las Vegas? That's where I got mine. Anyway, because I live in a hard water area, I have an espresso-specific softener under the sink too. I feed the pump with the regular 1/4" filter water tubing that you get anywhere for RO systems and such. On the pump output feeding my specific machine, I decided to go with more 1/4" tubing, but this time, it's ultra high pressure rating, (70 bar burst strength, 25 bar continuous duty rating). It would be up to you to find a way to get that tubing size adapted to your machine. But in plastic tubing, 1/4" OD appears to be interchangeable with 6mm OD. That was key in adapting to my machine because it's metric. The pump has 3/8" NPT females, so I got a couple of solid brass fittings that are 3/8"NPT male on one end, and 1/4" OD quick connect on the other. They are also rated for very high pressure... much higher pressure than we need for espresso. Been a month. Not a drop leaked. Very satisfied.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

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mohninme (original poster)

#6: Post by mohninme (original poster) »

Thanks Peter. We communicated previously on your own pump outboarding thread. I found a brand new 1/3 hp motor and fluidOtech pump on eBay for $150 USD. I was hoping to install a bulkhead type fitting through the back wall of my machine and adapt inside. Everything on the outside will be standard plumbing and the normal 3/8 npt at the pump. The supply side is all pretty straight forward. The discharge side is well above what any "line" pressure is so that's where I need to be picky. Sounds like you found a decent solution. I have had a SS braided line in my mind but may need to open to other options.
Michael

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mohninme (original poster)

#7: Post by mohninme (original poster) »

I finally completed my long anticipated outboarding project this past weekend. It turned out to be a fair bit more work than expected :shock:

I installed:
1/3 HP motor with FluidOtech pump
Both RO water and regulated, softened line pressure water (Well originated) with the intent to blend
A coconut carbon filter on the outlet
TDS metering
Solid State Relay on the pump power
Solenoid on the water supply
Appliance toggle switch for pump on/off control
1/4" vinyl line and high pressure brass JG type fittings (250 psi rated)

I am super happy with the end result. Not only is my morning routine much more peaceful, the line pressure for PI is an absolute blessing. I just flick up the E61 lever and no fussing around controlling pressure. I have line in set at 2 bar. When I am ready for pump pressure, I flick the pump switch and adjust pressure/flow as desired with the flow control paddle. Another thing that has been really nice is the ability to perform the HX flush at line pressure. It takes longer but I find it easier to hit my target temp and I can do it while I am prepping to pull a shot. I still haven't sorted out the water blending. The plan is to use the RO as the base and blend in softened water using the the TDS meter pre/post for measurement. So far I am just using softened water 100%.



Michael

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pcrussell50

#8: Post by pcrussell50 »

Congratulations on reaping the rewards of smooth quiet rotary power, not to mention the benefits of independent control of the solenoid and the pump.

I must ask however, why include RO in your system at all? I just use an espresso specific softener, fed directly to the pump. It's very simple. All I have is a JG shutoff valve from my cold water pipe before it gets to the softener. Which softener system do you use, and what kit do you use to determine when it is time to replace the softener? I use this softener, (there are others), https://www.amazon.com/3M-ESP124-T-Espr ... B0029SQ9T2 and I use the Hach HA71 kit that Dick Green and a few others use for determining exact hardness to know when to replace the softener cartridge.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

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mohninme (original poster)

#9: Post by mohninme (original poster) »

pcrussell50 wrote: I must ask however, why include RO in your system at all? I just use an espresso specific softener, fed directly to the pump. It's very simple. All I have is a JG shutoff valve from my cold water pipe before it gets to the softener. Which softener system do you use, and what kit do you use to determine when it is time to replace the softener?
So I left a bit of detail out here. I do not use an espresso specific softener. I live rural and have a water well. The water is very good but it is high in calcium carbonate. I use a whole home softener system so every tap in my house has softened water supply. Generally "softened" water is not considered quality drinking water as it is high in sodium and has a texture/mouthfeel that some dislike. To solve this issue, I have a RO system to remove the sodium and polish the water for drinking purposes. While it is now nice to drink, it is pretty empty and according to some, not ideal for espresso. I referenced Jim Schulman's Insanely Long Water FAQ found in the Resource section on HB previous to planning my set-up (link below).

https://web.archive.org/web/20080526072 ... erfaq.html

Image from Insanely Long Water FAQ



Edit:
I changed the title to include "Water Choice"
Michael