Newbie broke his espresso machine, no water from group - Page 2

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
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HB
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#11: Post by HB »

Sounds like a wise decision! Just ask Harry...
Dan Kehn

CremaCrazy

#12: Post by CremaCrazy »

DigitalDave wrote:Thanks for all the suggestions. I am sending the machine to Glenn at Europa in SoCal. I was hoping that it would simply work when I hooked it up, then I figured I would learn something by "fixing" it, but have found that I have learned nothing and have taken 2 steps back...

Let me know the outcome. I am in a very similar situation with a La Spaziale EK NEW 3000.

I think mine sat and the vanes in the pump froze up, maybe even eventually broke free but are now completely ineffective to make any appreciable pressure.

My machine still makes hot water, but I believe that is because boiler pressure pushes it out of bottom of the boiler.

Sean

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DigitalDave (original poster)

#13: Post by DigitalDave (original poster) »

Glenn at Europa gets my machine later today, I will post back the outcome.
DigitalDave

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karl_a_hall
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#14: Post by karl_a_hall »

DigitalDave wrote:fluid hydraulics class
Isn't that redundant? fluid hydraulics? Is there really a class called that? Doesn't the term hydraulics only ever refer to fluids, therefore fluids is unnecessary? Just a question.

But to answer your question, this sounds an awful lot like a destroyed pump. The rotary pump is designed to increase the head of the system through a rotary vane. In espresso machines they also contain a substantive bypass, such that there is still flow 'through' the pump even when the motor is not engaged. Therefore, water exiting on the other end of the pump when under no load is of very little use in determining function. Under load (full portafilter) the pump should be able to increase the system pressure to at least 9 bars, assuming you have the adjustment set up correctly. You can adjust the bypass to control the pressure. It is possible to back that adjustment screw out to a place where you will get virtually no increase in head under load.

Therefore, I am betting a blown pump... or maybe a stalling motor (?) under load, or really misadjusted bypass. I will be anxious to see what the experts have to say that have the machine in hand. Keep us posted.

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karl_a_hall
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#15: Post by karl_a_hall »

oysterhead wrote:i'm confused...so you run the pump but it appears the water flows exactly the same as the open line under tap pressure? why not disconnect the tap line and try to pump from a bucket of water?

in other words, cant you connect the pump to the motor, but disconnect it from the machine (leave braided hose attached to pump but disconnect from machine and put into a bucket of water) and run the motor to see if it will pump water from a bucket or similar?

I wouldn't do this if you have a rotary pump... they need positive line pressure to operate without assploding.

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DigitalDave (original poster)

#16: Post by DigitalDave (original poster) »

OK, got the machine back. There was "gunk" blocking the flowmeter and the pump output line. I surmise that from sitting unused for a long period of time? In any case, it was a cheap and quick fix. Nothing like I had expected....
I originally hooked up my new LaSpaziale with no regulator, 80psi. Could this be what caused this? I posted this as a new question:)
DigitalDave

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karl_a_hall
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#17: Post by karl_a_hall »

I doubt that the high pressure knocked the gunk loose all on its own. After sitting gunk can either attach itself more effectively to the machine, or detach. I am guessing that in the moving/installing/etc. you knocked some loose and it traveled to a choke point. Glad to hear it was a cheap fix and you are back on the espresso band wagon. Have you posted a pic in the "my setup" thread yet? I'd like to see your setup.

Karl

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cannonfodder
Team HB

#18: Post by cannonfodder »

karl_a_hall wrote:I wouldn't do this if you have a rotary pump... they need positive line pressure to operate without assploding.
They will work just fine from a static tank. You get no preinfusion and will have to adjust the pressure on the pump but they will work just fine. As long as your vertical lift is not more than a couple feet. You dont want to run a rotary dry, you can burn up the impeller but it will work from a static tank just fine.
Dave Stephens

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karl_a_hall
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#19: Post by karl_a_hall »

Dave,

Thanks for the correction. I definitely respect your knowledge on this issue and your experience.

Here is where I was coming from, please feel free to dialogue about this and correct me again.

I guess what I was trying to communicate (and made the mistake of over generalization) is that if one is already having pump problems, pumping from a static tank could be just enough to toast the impeller assembly. I.e. if the pump is on its final leg(s) then a static test may lead to problems, not a diagnosis. I say this from watching an espresso 'tech' do this exact thing. I do know that ideally they will work, but in practice my nearly new pump doesn't even sound quite the same pumping from a reservoir as it does with positive pressure (and the instructions did def say to only use positive pressure, though it gave implicit instructions for pumping from a static reservoir).

mini

#20: Post by mini »

Glad to hear that everything is running smoothly again!
matt