Magister ES40 problems, possibly GICAR controller
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nmytilin
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 6 years ago
Hello all,
Finally, after many days searching the forum, I gave up and i am starting a new thread.
I have a Magister ES40 (single group, heat exchanger) which after of few weeks working erratically today wasn't working at all.
Please find attached two video clips showing my problem exactly. I think its easier than me describing the issue. So far I have replaced:
all of the power electronics on the GICAR (relays, diodes, transformer, transistors, varistors),
brand new flowmeter.
A brand new Parker 2 way solenoid in on its way
At the moment i can't get rid of the machine neither buy a new one but i desperately need my morning coffee!!
So PLEASE any help would be really apreciated!!
Finally, after many days searching the forum, I gave up and i am starting a new thread.
I have a Magister ES40 (single group, heat exchanger) which after of few weeks working erratically today wasn't working at all.
Please find attached two video clips showing my problem exactly. I think its easier than me describing the issue. So far I have replaced:
all of the power electronics on the GICAR (relays, diodes, transformer, transistors, varistors),
brand new flowmeter.
A brand new Parker 2 way solenoid in on its way
At the moment i can't get rid of the machine neither buy a new one but i desperately need my morning coffee!!
So PLEASE any help would be really apreciated!!-
nahau
- Posts: 528
- Joined: 11 years ago
You should probably take the time to explain "in words" what these two videos are supposed to be showing... basically what is wrong with the machine. Many of these machines are based on similar design, etc, but unfortunately they also go about doing those same things differently. Perhaps some words about what you expect is supposed to happen when you press that button, or if not, then you might have to wait for someone who happens to own or knows about this particular machine.
If I had to guess, the button you're pressing is the brew switch, and the other outlet in the cup is a steam wand? If water is coming out of the group and the steam wand at the same time, then perhaps the boiler is being overfilled.
I don't know your machine, so hopefully someone with more knowledge will drop by.
If I had to guess, the button you're pressing is the brew switch, and the other outlet in the cup is a steam wand? If water is coming out of the group and the steam wand at the same time, then perhaps the boiler is being overfilled.
I don't know your machine, so hopefully someone with more knowledge will drop by.
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nmytilin (original poster)
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 6 years ago
Thank you nahau for your reply.
I am not really good at words and i though the video would be more valuable.
Other times when the machine is power on, i get water from the group head for a few seconds and then every 5 seconds momentary bursts of the pump and solenoids followed from small amount of water, again, from the group head. You can notice that on the start of 2nd video.
Other times it starts fine ,If you notice in the 1st video you can clearly hear the heater relay turning on, heating water all good, creating pressure and steam as usual, But when brew button is pressed, i get water out of the steam wand and group head. That means both solenoids go on at the same time filling the boiler and shooting water from the group head. No idea why.
If the water level sensor wasn't working then i would get overfilled boiler at the power on of the machine. I should mention that the machine has to be turned off after that. It won't stop automatically.
I have replaced the 2way solenoid with a brand new Parker and I know that my water level sensor is working. I get an alarm beep if i disconnect it.
I am assuming that the 3way is working fine because i get water out of the group head and down to the drip tray when solenoid is disarmed.
But for the love of god i cannot understand what is wrong with the machine. As i mentioned i have replaced all the power electronics in the GICAR unit (Gicar RL30 Micro Z " Double 5l) and all the smd components are looking and measure fine( to my best knowledge).
Could it be the micro controller in the unit faulty? Did anyone ever extracted the code out of it? I just have run out of ideas
I am not really good at words and i though the video would be more valuable.
Other times when the machine is power on, i get water from the group head for a few seconds and then every 5 seconds momentary bursts of the pump and solenoids followed from small amount of water, again, from the group head. You can notice that on the start of 2nd video.
Other times it starts fine ,If you notice in the 1st video you can clearly hear the heater relay turning on, heating water all good, creating pressure and steam as usual, But when brew button is pressed, i get water out of the steam wand and group head. That means both solenoids go on at the same time filling the boiler and shooting water from the group head. No idea why.
If the water level sensor wasn't working then i would get overfilled boiler at the power on of the machine. I should mention that the machine has to be turned off after that. It won't stop automatically.
I have replaced the 2way solenoid with a brand new Parker and I know that my water level sensor is working. I get an alarm beep if i disconnect it.
I am assuming that the 3way is working fine because i get water out of the group head and down to the drip tray when solenoid is disarmed.
But for the love of god i cannot understand what is wrong with the machine. As i mentioned i have replaced all the power electronics in the GICAR unit (Gicar RL30 Micro Z " Double 5l) and all the smd components are looking and measure fine( to my best knowledge).
Could it be the micro controller in the unit faulty? Did anyone ever extracted the code out of it? I just have run out of ideas
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nahau
- Posts: 528
- Joined: 11 years ago
The following diagram was pulled from Mr.Cappuccino website...
http://www.mrcappuccino.com/servicedepo ... epart.html
http://www.mrcappuccino.com/servicedepo ... %2040R.pdf
Is this how your machine is put together? I'm concerned about water coming out of the steam wand when you press the brew button... is your steam knob (11) opened? Seems there's no way to get water out of the steam wand unless the knob is opened, or the seal is bad.
You might already know this, but gotta state it anyways. The Gicars main fuction is to switch the water path from the brew path (default path) to the boiler fill path by enabling/disabling the water solenoid (23). Normally, power to the solenoid is 0 volts, and so the solenoid is closed and so the water path is always to the brew path. When the Gicar receives a signal from the water level probe (8), it enables the solenoid via a relay by applying 120v to it's leads and the solenoid opens, (thus closing the brew path) and water from the pump fills the boiler. During brewing, no water should be entering the boiler because the solenoid is supposed to be closed. Check valve (24) is there so no water can go backwards to the pump.
You state the water level probe is good... did you pull it out and clean it? How's about the water level probe wire... does it have a good connection to both the probe and gicar? Water out of the steam wand normally means an overfilled boiler, but even so, water shouldn't be coming out unless the steam knob is open or leaking. The boiler and HX are separate water systems and neither should react with the other. If during brewing, and if the HX tube in the boiler has a leak, AND, the steam knob is open or leaking, then brew pressure can push water out of the steam wand. It would be a bad thing if this was the case as now you would have to change the entire boiler.
Not sure what to advise. It seems you checked things quite thorouhly. I do think you need to pull the water level probe to make sure it isn't scaled... it needs to be shiny and clean. By the way, Gicars do fail, but not as often as people suspect them. When they do, it's normally just the relays or the coil. Can't say that's the case with your Gicar, but try to look elsewhere for the cause of the problem as Gicars are pricey.
http://www.mrcappuccino.com/servicedepo ... epart.html
http://www.mrcappuccino.com/servicedepo ... %2040R.pdf
Is this how your machine is put together? I'm concerned about water coming out of the steam wand when you press the brew button... is your steam knob (11) opened? Seems there's no way to get water out of the steam wand unless the knob is opened, or the seal is bad.
You might already know this, but gotta state it anyways. The Gicars main fuction is to switch the water path from the brew path (default path) to the boiler fill path by enabling/disabling the water solenoid (23). Normally, power to the solenoid is 0 volts, and so the solenoid is closed and so the water path is always to the brew path. When the Gicar receives a signal from the water level probe (8), it enables the solenoid via a relay by applying 120v to it's leads and the solenoid opens, (thus closing the brew path) and water from the pump fills the boiler. During brewing, no water should be entering the boiler because the solenoid is supposed to be closed. Check valve (24) is there so no water can go backwards to the pump.
You state the water level probe is good... did you pull it out and clean it? How's about the water level probe wire... does it have a good connection to both the probe and gicar? Water out of the steam wand normally means an overfilled boiler, but even so, water shouldn't be coming out unless the steam knob is open or leaking. The boiler and HX are separate water systems and neither should react with the other. If during brewing, and if the HX tube in the boiler has a leak, AND, the steam knob is open or leaking, then brew pressure can push water out of the steam wand. It would be a bad thing if this was the case as now you would have to change the entire boiler.
Not sure what to advise. It seems you checked things quite thorouhly. I do think you need to pull the water level probe to make sure it isn't scaled... it needs to be shiny and clean. By the way, Gicars do fail, but not as often as people suspect them. When they do, it's normally just the relays or the coil. Can't say that's the case with your Gicar, but try to look elsewhere for the cause of the problem as Gicars are pricey.
