La Pavoni Europiccola Rebuild... sort of different. - Page 2

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
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pizzigri (original poster)
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#11: Post by pizzigri (original poster) »

uuhhh, you're aware that the current square O rings for the glass tube can be used for that machine, right? The only problem would be the diameter of the tube (early tubes are slightly smaller) but you just give an extra half turn to the bolts and you're OK.

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rpavlis
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#12: Post by rpavlis »

I did not realise that they were the same, I will try to find some. Hardware stores and the like do not seem to have rings like that.

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pizzigri (original poster)
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#13: Post by pizzigri (original poster) »

They cost 3.50 $ each. Espresso care in Oregon has them...
I don't know if I can post a link.
Edited to add:
You may have to cut about 1 or 2 mm off the height of the gasket, to allow the metal protection to fit, very easy to do. I've done it more than once.

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drgary
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#14: Post by drgary »

Franco,

I'm really happy to find this thread. Great job on re-engineering a machine that was destined to be parted out otherwise. I'm about to dig into my vintage Pavoni and it will be a "purist" restoration, but only because it's a possibly historic machine (first U.S. prototype, I think) and in good enough condition I can go at it without machining gear or skills. I like to do reversible mods on machines like that and am puzzling about whether I want to tackle the lack of a sightglass with something that will provide water level readings. Otherwise I'll probably just count shots and will use it occasionally like Robert does with his new/old gem.

At some point I would like to get one of the first generation models with a sightglass and restore or if needed re-engineer like yours. Thank you for speccing current replacement parts and for just showing this can be accomplished. I'm trying to picture what you've done with the group gasket. If you are able to provide more photos on this or a later rebuild that would be great.

You've probably seen that with the second and third-generation La Pavonis some of us have been adding thermometers to the outside of the group. By starting with a cruising temperature that's a bit low -- about where your PSTAT is set -- you can do half pumps to heat the group to the desired start temp and tune into different levels of roasts. Have you thought of adding a group thermometer?

Also can your machine be left on for hours or does the OPV continuously vent?
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

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pizzigri (original poster)
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#15: Post by pizzigri (original poster) »

Thanks Gary!
Good luck with your restoration. Post some images of it, when you're finished.
i've finished restoring a Zacconi Riviera Espresso (the reason I had some spares around) for my uncle. in regards to reversibility, apart for the tiny hole in the base, everything I've done to this machine would be reversible... except, of course, that many parts (i.e. the coil) would be downright impossible to obtain.

I believe that there is a lot of merit in "upgrading" older machines like this one (built in 1972), now that I've used it for a couple of weeks I can assess A LOT of improvements vs. my previous machine, a 1993 model EP with pstat.


Here's a pic of both, side by side

First off, overall performance and temperature stability, due to how the brass sleeved group is made, BUT ALSO because of the original base: it is a 3mm thick (in some places up to 4mm!) cast aluminum block, which very effectively works as an excellent heatsink (it heats up pretty fast too), preventing boiler overheating.
Because of the above, the base is rock solid. Actually, granite solid: it doesn't budge no matter how strongly I'd pull the lever down. There's no give whatsoever, and even better than the super expensive current brass base.

The current MaTer ECHO pstat seems to be amazingly stable in regards to performance. A long way from the old and huuuge pstat in my previous EP, which would change threshold as temperature would rise.

A resettable thermal fuse (it's set I believe at 154 C°) is a big insurance for the health of the machine.

Last but not least, coolness factor and looks. Undoubtedly, I find the older machines more beautiful than the current ones. Materials, workmanship, fit and finish - you name it. Just look at the machined lever head above the group...

As to your questions.

I'd love to add a termometer to the group, don't know which way to go though.

In regards to leaving the machine on for hours. I believe so, I've left it on once for slightly over an hour, and it did make a grand espresso (was talking to a friend in front of the machine), although I did have to dip the portafilter in cold water. The OPV never kicks in, I believe it starts steaming above 1,5 bar or so, the machine is set with the pstat so that it never goes above 1 bar. The pstat is so fast that when it's coasting sometimes it just fires up the coil for not more than 10 seconds, or less.

To take down the gasket in my PizzigriEP (there now it's got its own name, too!) to show how the additional ring is made would be quite a chore, as I'd have to pull down the piston as well. A bummer.

But... I may have another vintage EP to upgrade in more or less the same condition in within a month.
Do you think a real, walk through, step-by-step tutorial with part specs (including part numbers) and guesstimate cost may be interesting? it'll take some time to do, though.

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drgary
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#16: Post by drgary »

pizzigri wrote:I'd love to add a termometer to the group, don't know which way to go though.
We've got a thread going on that. I've done one for my Olympia Express Cremina where I've adapted a lab clamp to hold a food thermometer that's also adapted for the purpose. Here's a link to that. Since that post I put Sugru in the insert to the lab clamp to steady its hold on the thermometer.
pizzigri wrote:But... I may have another vintage EP to upgrade in more or less the same condition in within a month. Do you think a real, walk through, step-by-step tutorial with part specs (including part numbers) and guesstimate cost may be interesting? it'll take some time to do, though.
That would be a wonderful contribution. I did something similar when I restored a Conti Prestina. People use that thread as a guide when they're lucky enough to find one. That thread isn't tidy like an expert restoration documented by Paul Pratt or others. I take people through my trials and errors so they can get a sense of the learning process. My point is to make it as tidy (or not) as you want. You'll have a lot to teach us if you can find the time. The photos, for instance, don't have to be perfect.

It would be great to have a guide to restoring the old Europiccolas that were made with such high quality. And yes, I'm going to document mine.
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

TM
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#17: Post by TM »

pizzigri wrote:But... I may have another vintage EP to upgrade in more or less the same condition in within a month.
Do you think a real, walk through, step-by-step tutorial with part specs (including part numbers) and guesstimate cost may be interesting? it'll take some time to do, though.
Yes, please!

toddmp
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#18: Post by toddmp »

great looking machine. I am working on one as well although I am trying to salvage the original heating element/system. I really like your aluminum base. I may strip mine and go with that look too.

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pizzigri (original poster)
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#19: Post by pizzigri (original poster) »

OK! So, my uncle should pass by in the weekend with the sad remains of yet another Europiccola from the seventies. Seems the best EP to mod are the ones that have SN spanning from B0000 to 51000 (1970-1974 according to Ceccarelli's data).
I would suggest that you start with something next to complete trash, possibly with a burnt coil, as it would be a sin to mod a decently working one, they're getting really scarce and value will go up. In that case, it's better to restore it, as Dr.Gary suggests.
Such EP pop up I believe at reasonable prices on Ebay (less than 100 Euro).

I think I'll open a new thread, as soon as the EP comes in. What do you guys think?

Franco

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drgary
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#20: Post by drgary »

pizzigri wrote:I think I'll open a new thread, as soon as the EP comes in. What do you guys think?
I think ... enthusiasm! Really looking forward to seeing your next resurrection step by step.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!