Gloria Astoria Water Level Issue Control (Giemme RL?)

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
cabrego

#1: Post by cabrego »

Hey all,

After much research and troubleshooting I decided to summon the the all knowing internet for help. I'm working on my Astoria Gloria AL, the current problem is the water level control circuit is not functioning.

Here is the history of what's happened:


[*]Unit was working without issues for several months
[*]Main power switch Burned out and had to be replaced, replaced with
[*]https://www.cafeparts.com/Selector-Swit ... oduct/9246
[*]After switch replaced noticed auto fill not functioning correctly
[*]Assumed bad solenoid valve or control board, replaced both with no change.
[*]Checks

All wiring is in good condition
Water level sensor is free of scaling and continuous from probe to spade connector
Auto fill circuit is the only thing affected by the issue.
Heating element is working
Safety Shut off is working

After writing all of this down, I'm really starting to question how the main power switch is wired, but would love any suggestions you might have.

My main question at this point is if someone has a voltage/pin out for the Geimme RL control unit? For example, for a functioning unit should pin 1 have 120v? in position 1 or 2?




JRising
Team HB

#2: Post by JRising »

Are you able to test that controller outside of the machine? If powered without the probe lead grounded, do you hear the relay click, then clack when probe and ground are connected? When clicked is there basically zero resistance betwixt all of the relay connections?

Testing each component on it's own can rule each out as the problem, allowing your focus to be on the things that may be the cause.

I'm assuming that that red is phase, and the light blue is piggybacked to it by a connector I can't see in the photo. If it is in fact neutral, as the use of a blue jumper wire would indicate, please point this out and then confirm if the white is phase.

ira
Team HB

#3: Post by ira »

The classic way to test the autofill is to disconnect the wire to the level sensor which should initiate autofill. Is it not filling or over filling.

That's a pretty simple controller, it's basically power in, level sensor and 2 relays, one to the pump and one to the solenoid. So I believe that left to right, you should see something like:

1,2 first 2, power in, order irrelevant

3 Level sensor wire, very low voltage
4 ground

5 power Should measure 117V Referenced to neutral
6 neutral, should measure zero when idle Referenced to neutral
7 neutral, should measure zero when idle Referenced to neutral

It's possible the last 3 will be reversed, i.e., power will be neutral and neutral will be power. Either will work.

And it's also possible I'm wrong, but there's not much else it can be. I'm assuming it's a 117V machine, if not, neutral and power will measure 220 and then it's important that 5-6 and 5-7 both measure 220 when idle.

JRising
Team HB

#4: Post by JRising »

ira wrote: 1,2 first 2, power in, order irrelevant
Except that 6 is jumped with that light blue(not neutral blue?) wire... If it's supposed to be neutral at 6, then the piggyback connection should probably be to the white(neutral).

But yes. What Ira said is correct, and just as he asked... Why? What is wrong with your autofill? Does it not run the pump and valve simultaneously when not grounded?

ira
Team HB

#5: Post by ira »

The power and neutral are commonly reversed going to the pump and solenoids. I guess if you're not used to one side of power being neutral than it makes no difference. It's only a very minor safety issue and then only if you're working on exposed wiring and don't assume everything is hot or something rubs through a wire and causes a short, neither of which should be actual problems.

cabrego (original poster)

#6: Post by cabrego (original poster) »

JRising wrote:Are you able to test that controller outside of the machine? If powered without the probe lead grounded, do you hear the relay click, then clack when probe and ground are connected? When clicked is there basically zero resistance betwixt all of the relay connections?

Testing each component on it's own can rule each out as the problem, allowing your focus to be on the things that may be the cause.

I'm assuming that that red is phase, and the light blue is piggybacked to it by a connector I can't see in the photo. If it is in fact neutral, as the use of a blue jumper wire would indicate, please point this out and then confirm if the white is phase.
The autofill is not functioning at all, there is no pump, it's just a solenoid valve and it stays shut no matter what I do. No clicking.

I tested both new and old controllers with both new and old solenoids and got the same behavior, so that is why I am baffled. You're asking a great question, and that is the root of my first question. I'm leaning toward some kind of power/neutral issue with the wiring, perhaps the new power switch did not get wired correctly. I could not find an identical replacement, but what I found appears identical but different part numbers. I can get back to the machine later this evening and get some more info. I have these two photos and some notes.



cabrego (original poster)

#7: Post by cabrego (original poster) »

I think I might have found a problem with the main power switch.

When I power the switch on:

The small red wire gets 120 volts AND the white wire is getting 69 volts. The effect is that I'm sending the same voltages to the corresponding pins on the control box. And if white is neutral, I think this means that the neutral is never actually provided. could this be the culprit?


JRising
Team HB

#8: Post by JRising »

I have to suggest again, test components individually... Is your 69 volts on the white wire or on that terminal of the switch if you separate the wire from the terminal? Does the controller work when disconnected from the machine and run directly on a known 110 plug? When you say that the white is getting 69V is that to ground or to the neutral side of the mains plug or what?

As I reread this, I see it's not very helpful, sorry. But you have to rule out some things as the potential problem if you want people who can't see or test it to offer anything useful.

Lastly, I suppose, confirm how it's supposed to be set up. Is the beige wire from the control box definitely going to the 2-way solenoid valve and is the opposite side of that solenoid definitely neutral without any components along the way all the way back to the switch? Thus, the dark blue and white is for the pump?

cabrego (original poster)

#9: Post by cabrego (original poster) »

JRising wrote:I have to suggest again, test components individually... Is your 69 volts on the white wire or on that terminal of the switch if you separate the wire from the terminal? Does the controller work when disconnected from the machine and run directly on a known 110 plug? When you say that the white is getting 69V is that to ground or to the neutral side of the mains plug or what?

As I reread this, I see it's not very helpful, sorry. But you have to rule out some things as the potential problem if you want people who can't see or test it to offer anything useful.
Thank you for your help. Yes all good and fair points. To test the solenoid, do I just provide power/neutral to the 2 non ground pins?

The 69 volts (relative to ground) is coming off the terminal, I did not separate from the wire but the wire goes to harness not connected to anything, it's noted as "split from main switch in previous picture". The 69 volts is when the switch is turned to either position 1 or 2.
Lastly, I suppose, confirm how it's supposed to be set up. Is the beige wire from the control box definitely going to the 2-way solenoid valve and is the opposite side of that solenoid definitely neutral without any components along the way all the way back to the switch? Thus, the dark blue and white is for the pump?
Yes the beige/brownish wire AND the WHITE wire goes to the solenoid, the WHITE wires also goes back to the area of the main switch. The blue wire does too, probably for a pump this unit does not have? See photo text "From top of machine..." It's logical that red/white should be connected to red/white near the main switch.

My initial question was geared toward testing the control box, I can't test it if I don't know exactly which pins get voltage/neutral. It sounds like from the previous responses, Red is voltage and white is neutral, which is piggy packed to the light blue jumper. If that's the cases, it seems there's some sort of wiring issue. Here is the pin out I did the other day, all measurements are relative to ground. 3 Measurements taken, OFF, Position 1, and Position 2.



ira
Team HB

#10: Post by ira »

I assume the 2 black wires on the switch are the power in. If I'm wrong, use these instructions for those wires.

Check both of those wires to ground. Mark the one that's neutral.

Now check everything based off that neutral.

If you still get the same numbers, make sure that white is actually supposed to be neutral and then figure out where to connect the white to the switch so it's connected to neutral at all switch positions but off. I say that because wire coloring on Italian machines often bears no resemblance to what the US considers standard, though it does look like white should be common from the few pictures I can see. I assume it also connects to one side of the motor, solenoid and heater which would confirm that assumption.