House 120v to 240v electrical question.

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
User avatar
redbone
Supporter ♡

#1: Post by redbone »

My house electric is 120v 60hz. Recently setup a NEMA 6-20 outlet with 2 live one ground.Two circuit breakers with joining handle tie coupler. Tried using a 220v Caravel with plug adapter but element does not heat although machine recieves current.
Understand 240V EU power is only a single phase system (one hot and one ground) at 50 Hz.

Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.


Rob
LMWDP #549

baldheadracing
Supporter ♡

#2: Post by baldheadracing »

IMO, that conversion is (practically) only safe with double-insulated class II appliances (or mods to the espresso machine's wiring, etc., to accomplish something similar).
What I'm interested in is my worst espresso being fantastic - James Hoffmann

User avatar
homeburrero
Team HB

#3: Post by homeburrero »

My understanding of the NEC is that a single receptacle alone on a circuit must have an ampacity of not less than the circuit overcurrent protection device. I think you need a different breaker. I would get a licensed electrician to install one that has AFCI/GFCI as well as the proper overcurrent protection for that circuit and receptacle. The GFCI here may or may not not be required by local code, but is always a good idea on a circuit that serves an espresso machine.

P.S.
redbone wrote:Tried using a 220v Caravel with plug adapter but element does not heat although machine recieves current.
Understand 240V EU power is only a single phase system (one hot and one ground) at 50 Hz.
. This would have nothing to do with my concern about the breaker. Something must be wrong with either the machine or the circuit. A machine designed for European 220-240 50hz should work fine on properly wired US 230V split phase (two hots out of phase) wiring.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

Nunas
Supporter ♡

#4: Post by Nunas »

Check your plug converter, your receptacle, and your Caravel. Your setup should work. It's nothing to do with the breaker, the current-carrying capacity of the circuit, or the frequency. BTW, if the breaker in question is that double-20 or (OMG No!) that double 40, then that's an unsafe breaker for your use. Your Caravel has about a 600-Watt heater, which at 240-Volts draws something in the order of 3-amps worst case. IMO, over-fusing a circuit is worse than under-fusing one. If your Caravel shorts, the power cord would likely be red hot before the breaker popped, especially if it's that double-40.

User avatar
redbone
Supporter ♡

#5: Post by redbone »

Thanks Pat and Maurice, do see the issue now as my setup is essentially 40amp. Looking into 2 pole 20amp 240v with GFCI. In the interim not using the outlet and switched off at breaker.
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.


Rob
LMWDP #549

I.Fix.Jura

#6: Post by I.Fix.Jura »

There are many US appliances use 240VAC power: A/C, dryer, cook top, my welder, etc. I use all my European espresso machines (a Krups EA9010 and a Jura Z8) on it. Just make sure it's not the old kind with ground and neutral combined, then you'd be in real trouble... :shock:

Nunas
Supporter ♡

#7: Post by Nunas »

Rob, wow, 40-Amps at 240-V that's a lot of power. But, if you have use for it, such as other machines that consume much more power, you could retain that double 40. But it takes some re-wiring. The way it's done is to install a pony panel in the room where your coffee stuff is located. This is just a small panel with a few breakers of various sizes. You could put, say a double 5 for little machines like the caravel and a double 20 for a commercial espresso machine, for example. If you happen to have a neutral in the 40-A line, then you can have the best of both worlds, some 240 lines for European stuff, and some 120 lines for NA stuff. I used to have exactly this set-up many years ago when I ran high power amplifiers for a ham radio contest station, with a bunch of lower power devices like receivers and TTY equipment on separate circuits. You might be able to do this with a stand-alone panel that plugs into the socket you've installed. But, I'm not sure if that would meet code (probably would if done right). -Maurice

I.Fix.Jura

#8: Post by I.Fix.Jura »

At least you have these options for 250V 50A in US: NEMA 6-50, NEMA 10-50, and NEMA 14-50. I know 6-50 is standard for welders, 10-50 is for A/C units, and 14-50 for cooktops. People also use these to charge electrical cars now.

Jabberwocke

#9: Post by Jabberwocke »

I am not an electrician. Doesn't NEC require/suggest four wire plug for 240VAC equipment? That would be hot1, hot2, neutral, ground. Ground should be connected to the frame of the equipment. Hot1 to Hot2 provides 240VAC. Hot1 to neutral or Hot2 to neutral provides 120VAC. Neutral is connected to ground inside the breaker/distribution panel. GFCI/AFCI highly recommended. I agree that you should substitute a lower current rating breaker. Confirm that your wiring from breaker to plug is NEC rated for current that breaker can supply. I used 10/4 for a short run to my Linea. Be careful.

okmed

#10: Post by okmed »

Nunas wrote:You could put, say a double 5 for little machines like the caravel
Never heard of "double 5" it would be called "double pole breaker " ( and singles are called single pole breakers). Breakers are meant to protect the wire and not the device. That is why for residential house wiring you will never see 5amp breakers. The code does not allow anything smaller than 14 gauge wire to be used. 14 gauge wire will have a 15 amp breaker, 12 gauge wire will have 20 amp breakers and 10 gauge wire will have 30 amp breakers. Hope this doesn't come across as condescending, just wanted to make that clear.