ECM Giotto 2003 version - Steam boiler pressure high? - Page 2

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
burgieman70 (original poster)
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#11: Post by burgieman70 (original poster) »

Hi Pat,
Thanks for your advice. Just ordered a Mater XP110. I also noted the steam wand you mentioned.
best regards

burgieman70 (original poster)
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#12: Post by burgieman70 (original poster) »

UPDATE: I finally received my new Mater XP110 PStat and am ready to install. Some where on this forum I saw a diagram of how to wire a new Mater Pstat when switching from existing jaeger PS. Can't find it. Anyone know how I would wire the new Mater PStat? I also have a relay just like cuppajoe used on his project but I am unclear how the wiring was done so I am hesitant to add the relay without super clear instructions for a dummy level wiring person like myself.

I noticed my Giotto kept running my shots fast (bad taste) and no matter how much smaller I made the grind I couldn't get a proper shot at 25-30 sec.
I was able to put a gauge on my portafilter and got readings of 11-11.2 BAR at the portafilter. Is it correct that I should target about 10 Bar at the portafilter?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

burgieman70 (original poster)
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#13: Post by burgieman70 (original poster) »

Hi,

I removed the panels from my ECM Giotto. Found an overheated/melted connector on one lead going to boiler heating element.
Any ideas on next steps I should take? What could be the cause for this? Should I remove the heating element from the boiler?


Nunas
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#14: Post by Nunas »

burgieman70 wrote:Hi, I removed the panels from my ECM Giotto. Found an overheated/melted connector on one lead going to boiler heating element. Any ideas on next steps I should take? What could be the cause for this? Should I remove the heating element from the boiler?
That sort of damage is caused by a poor crimp, loose connection or corroded connection. From the heat pattern on the plastic, I'd hazard a guess that yours is the former. To correct this, you have to cut off the connector, strip the wire and examine. Heat like this will anneal the copper. If the stripped wire does not reveal bright, new-looking copper, then you have to cut back further. Crimp on a new high-quality connector using a ratchet crimper (not a department store one that looks like a pair of pliers and comes with dozens of crappy connectors). If you don't have an industrial electronics supplier in your area, check with some better known espresso machine places, like IDC in Canada, Chris's in the USA. DO NOT tin the wire with SOLDER. A proper crimped joint actually cold-welds. Tinned wire will not cold weld and the solder will migrate over time. If cutting the wire back far enough results in it being too short, favour replacing the entire wire, if it's accessible, over adding a bit on with a soldered joint, especially if you're not all that competent in electrical DIY. BTW, a bad heater connector like this will not lead to too high a steam boiler pressure. What you've found is an independent fault.

Nunas
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#15: Post by Nunas »

burgieman70 wrote:UPDATE: I finally received my new Mater XP110 PStat and am ready to install. Some where on this forum I saw a diagram of how to wire a new Mater Pstat when switching from existing jaeger PS. Can't find it. Anyone know how I would wire the new Mater PStat? I also have a relay just like cuppajoe used on his project but I am unclear how the wiring was done so I am hesitant to add the relay without super clear instructions for a dummy level wiring person like myself.<snip>
Adding a conventional relay is easy. I don't know anything about the diagram you mention. But the concept is really simple. You substitute the relay contacts for the p-stat contacts, and you use the p-stat contacts to drive the relay. Here's a diagram Life is a bit more complicated if you want to use a solid state relay. If this is what you've got, the principle is the same. What changes is the switching. You have to add a small power supply with a voltage suitable to drive the SSR, instead of using the AC mains. The easiest way to do this is to put a small "wall wart" power supply in the machine. In the new part of the diagram, the 120-volt male plug on the PSU takes the place of the relay coil. The output from the PSU drives the switching terminals of the SSR. All of this can be done with fairly light gauge wire, as the current is minimal.

burgieman70 (original poster)
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#16: Post by burgieman70 (original poster) »

Thanks Nunas,
Will follow your advice. While checking all the other parts I saw that the pump is dated 2003! Wow, didn't think the original pump would still be in there. I am replacing it as well.

JRising
Team HB

#17: Post by JRising »

Edit: Ignore this post. I know a 2003 ECM Giotto wouldn't have a flat Jaeger in it. The following is stupid.

One last comment about switching to Mater p-stat.
Your old Jaeger had only 2 connectors, so it didn't matter, your Mater has Common, Normally Open and Normally Closed. You'll want the Gicar side to Common (Top connection with the C or (1) on it) and the wire going off to the Coil side of the relay connects to the NC or the (2) on the Mater.




Edit: Now I've seen the pictures on the previous page, It's not the flat Jaeger. My comment about it only having 2 connectors is stupid. Ignore it.

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homeburrero
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#18: Post by homeburrero »

Nunas' advice about the burnt connection is spot on.
burgieman70 wrote:Anyone know how I would wire the new Mater PStat?
You can wire the Mater in just like your current Jaeger. One wire to the COM terminal and the other to the NC terminal. The NO terminal on the pstat just stays unconnected.



burgieman70 wrote:I noticed my Giotto kept running my shots fast (bad taste) and no matter how much smaller I made the grind I couldn't get a proper shot at 25-30 sec.
I was able to put a gauge on my portafilter and got readings of 11-11.2 BAR at the portafilter. Is it correct that I should target about 10 Bar at the portafilter?
If your shots run fast even when the grind is fine, then the problem is likely the grinder and not the brew pressure. If your grinder is up to par you should be able to grind fine enough that the shot is nearly choked and barely flows at all despite an 11+ bar max brew pressure.

The pressure you measure with a blank PF is the max pressure, which is controlled by the OPV (at the bottom of your picture.) They set these somewhat high in these machines because that was advised for ESE pods. Most advice nowadays is to set the OPV a little lower, so that it maxes out at 9.5 - 10 bar on a blank, giving you around 9 bar max on a tight shot. On my old ECM with the same OPV valve as yours I was unable to adjust it, so replaced mine with an easily adjustable one from Stefano's that I then adjusted to give me 10 bar max. I think doing that may perhaps have made my ristrettoish shots more consistent (less prone to channeling.)
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

burgieman70 (original poster)
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#19: Post by burgieman70 (original poster) »

Thanks Homeburrero,
Your picture is great and even I should get this right.

burgieman70 (original poster)
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#20: Post by burgieman70 (original poster) »

Hi
I replaced the Pstat and burnt wire. Just received my new ULKA EX5 pump. Currently waiting for new OPV valve from Stephano's.
I am looking at CuppaJoes Giotto restoration pictures and can't determine where the OPV valve goes. Does it replace the large expansion valve or does it connect directly to the new water pump?