I would assume one of your valves dropped it's rubber valve face.

But... all the old valves still had the rubber seals in place. And even if that did happen, how would that seal get perfectly seated UNDER the spring???

Hi!

I found this thread cause i'm experiencing the same issue.
I've got an old ECM Giotto Premium (est. 15 yrs old) , i've only had the machine for a year or so.
This spring i decided to open it up and descale, clean etc.
After the descaling things went bad, after a lot of issues i seem to still have problems with the backflush..
i just can't get it to open properly, everything else is working fine..

Two things puzzles me, first about is the springs.. i'd love to see some specs on how long they should be, and where they individually should be installed.
I saw on a youtube video that the top spring , in the mushroom , should be the "longest of them all 3", and when you screw that thing on, the top bolt should rest on the spring that's mounted there.

Although, the smaller spring in the exhaust valve is so damn tight so i'm not sure it's possible for it to release water?
And on top of that i feel like the spring in the middle chamber (before the exhaust) -is too short.

And in that middle chamber, there is a kind of distance-thingy that i just can't seem to find in Any schematic picture ...



any thoughts?
I fell i've tried EVERY way to mount it all together, but the exhaust valve never seems to open properly...

This is the exploded view of a generic E61 group, which I used to service mine. there will be small diferences between the various versions of the E61 group.
that 'distance thingy' looks like the drain valve (see schematic for the position)
cheers,
Rob

This picture shows the location of that bush, it should sit under the middle spring. It looks to me like you need to swap the middle and upper spring, on some Giotto the upper spring is shorter

This Giotto (and ECMs?) apparently have a sort of bushing which acts as a guide for the infusion valve when it is depressed to open the drain ("3-way") valve. I have edited the photo shiow the parts in correct arrangement and order of assembly to duplicate the previously-posted diagram. That bushing-like part is not used in other E-61 groups as seen below from a Vibiemme:

spitzo wrote:
Although, the smaller spring in the exhaust valve is so damn tight so i'm not sure it's possible for it to release water?

While the other posts here have already clarified the order of assembly, I'd just like to clear this up. That drain valve spring is so tight that pressure won't open it, you are correct. The cam (And your hand on the control lever) pushes the pre-infuse valve down onto the drain valve to open it when the machine is done brewing, this downward movement opens it and lets the brew-head's pressure drain out.

Thanks everyone for your tips and answers!
I'm eternally grateful!

Especially interesting about that spring-situation whereas the top valve spring probably isn't the longest one in the setup, i've been mislead so far on that one maybe!

First thing tomorrow i'm gonna switch the springs and then put that bussing where it belongs according to randy's nice picture of the setup.
I'll be testing it out and make a video and post here, wish me luck coffeelovers!

Again, SO grateful for your tips!

spitzo wrote:Thanks everyone for your tips and answers!
I'm eternally grateful! SO grateful for your tips!

We love to help. I am a (past) big fan of the E-61 group because of its simplicity and basic, dependable function.
I can say the same about your cars, but still presently am driving this:

32 years old, 5 speed manual box, 250,000 miles and still cruises at 80+mph all day if I want and uses virtually no oil!

I can say the same about your cars, but still presently am driving this:
Quotable Quote: Never interfere with a man bent on upgrading.
32 years old, 5 speed manual box, 250,000 miles and still cruises at 80+mph all day if I want and uses virtually no oil!

also one of the few cars that got tested on accidental moose collision