Crossland CC1 steam valve rebuild kit? - Page 3

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
Mark5902
Posts: 25
Joined: 1 year ago

#21: Post by Mark5902 »

For those of you who have dissassembled one of these:

- I need to replace the steam seal. I think I have to unscrew the steam valve assembly to do this, correct?
- That would mean that the Water Outlet Manifold (26 in CC1 manual) and the Steam Valve body (part 22) must be unscrewed. Yes?
- You can see that my steam valve body has a COPPER tube coming out the top of it. It is soldered into place on the hexagonal steam valve body. This means I cannot unscrew the body from the manifold unless I take the whole steam valve off the boiler. Agree?
- The water manifold has a hex cast piece right at the boiler. Touching it are two brass hex nuts holding the terminals of the heater coil. I can't unscrew any of these from the top because they are bound together.

Therefore, I think that: I have to disassemble the whole boiler in order to get the steam valve off, then unscrew manifold from body, then replace steam seal, then reassemble it all. Do you all agree?

- (side question: there are two nuts on the copper tube at the point it connects to the thermoblock. Which should I unscrew? I took both off, unscrewing entirely from the thermoblock.

cheers! Thanks in advance.

thecommon_jack
Posts: 2
Joined: 1 year ago

#22: Post by thecommon_jack »

Mark5902 wrote: I need to replace the steam seal. I think I have to unscrew the steam valve assembly to do this, correct?
If we're talking about the spring-loaded little block that floats inside the steam valve, then yes. If you have a leak, consider that the problem may be adjustment instead of part failure.
Mark5902 wrote:That would mean that the Water Outlet Manifold (26 in CC1 manual) and the Steam Valve body (part 22) must be unscrewed. Yes?
I don't think so. Just #22 needs to come off to access this part. Yours is a hexagonal cylinder, which tells me it's made for a wrench.
Mark5902 wrote:You can see that my steam valve body has a COPPER tube coming out the top of it. It is soldered into place on the hexagonal steam valve body. This means I cannot unscrew the body from the manifold unless I take the whole steam valve off the boiler. Agree?
Maybe. If you unscrew the compression fitting at the thermal block (and the other things attached to the valve), you should be able to unscrew the steam valve body #22 from the outlet manifold #26. What I don't know is if that copper tube will clear the boiler; it looks like it may interfere with the insulation at least. You could always bend the copper out of the way just slightly. Can you show back side of the valve, with the connection between the valve body and that copper tube?
Mark5902 wrote:The water manifold has a hex cast piece right at the boiler. Touching it are two brass hex nuts holding the terminals of the heater coil. I can't unscrew any of these from the top because they are bound together.
Therefore, I think that: I have to disassemble the whole boiler in order to get the steam valve off, then unscrew manifold from body, then replace steam seal, then reassemble it all. Do you all agree?
Again, I don't think you need to go that far.
Mark5902 wrote:(side question: there are two nuts on the copper tube at the point it connects to the thermoblock. Which should I unscrew? I took both off, unscrewing entirely from the thermoblock.
I don't know, but I'd start with the one furthest from the thermoblock / closest to the valve. Reminds me of a jam nut. If you're keen to nerd out, have a read:
https://www.boltscience.com/pages/twonuts.htm

Also, how much did a replacement valve cost, or did you buy the machine with this valve in it? Since my post, my valve has failed again (stuck closed), and I'm not keen to take it apart every few months.

Mark5902
Posts: 25
Joined: 1 year ago

#23: Post by Mark5902 »



Thanks @thecommon_jack! First, a picture to illustrate, then I'll respond to your post.

Mark5902
Posts: 25
Joined: 1 year ago

#24: Post by Mark5902 »

thecommon_jack wrote:If you have a leak, consider that the problem may be adjustment instead of part failure.

Maybe. If you unscrew the compression fitting at the thermal block (and the other things attached to the valve), you should be able to unscrew the steam valve body #22 from the outlet manifold #26. What I don't know is if that copper tube will clear the boiler; it looks like it may interfere with the insulation at least. You could always bend the copper out of the way just slightly. Can you show back side of the valve, with the connection between the valve body and that copper tube?

Also, how much did a replacement valve cost, or did you buy the machine with this valve in it? Since my post, my valve has failed again (stuck closed), and I'm not keen to take it apart every few months.
Thanks for the pointer on adjustment. Let's hope.

Unscrew steam valve body #22 from outlet manifold #26: yes, the problem is that copper tube. I don't think I can unscrew it without taking the manifold off the boiler. I don't have a pic of the backside of the tube/valve body contact, but it's soldered. Other versions of the CC1 have instead a flexible line that's secured with a removable compression fitting. This machine is a V2.0, and an early one, I believe. Summary: I'm going to have to take the boiler apart, I fear.

Replacement valve cost: yes my machine came with this valve in it. I'd try Panopticon for parts.

Your video: It is extraordinarily helpful - thank you! To summarize the adjustment turns for the shaft: it looks like you turned the steam valve shaft all the way in, then backed it off _one whole turn_. Then you tightened the outside nut (steam valve shaft sleeve #20) to hold the shaft into the body. Knowing this is one whole turn is helpful when one doesn't take the valve body off the manifold.

O-rings: leak out the wand when closed is due to failure of the steam valve seal, in adjustment or its o-ring. That ring blocks steam from flowing out the wand when the valve is closed. On the other hand, a leak inside machine when steam valve open is due to the o-rings on the steam valve shaft. In closed position they don't do much, never see steam because the seal blocks it. However, when valve is open they prevent steam from flowing into the valve body. If the shaft o-rings are bad, water will leak out along the shaft to the knob and drip inside machine. Agree? In sum: the o-rings on the shaft stop leaks inside machine during steaming, and the o-rings on the seal stop leaks out the wand when not steaming.

Summary of my original question - I'm going to need to adjust the steam seal, and maybe replace it. I'm going to try to bend the copper tube and maybe take off the insulation around the boiler, but I am pretty sure I'll have to dismantle the whole boiler to take off the manifold. If anyone has comments, please let me know. Thanks!

OnThruTheChompers
Posts: 18
Joined: 4 months ago

#25: Post by OnThruTheChompers »

thecommon_jack's video really helped me understand how the valve works--thank you for making this!

I wanted to add a few tips of my own which I found helpful when reassembling/recalibrating the valve.

1. Make sure you lubricate the O-rings/valve threads. This helps prevent the valve from "binding up" as you screw the stem back in, and with the valve moving smoothly, it is a lot easier to figure out when you're at the fully opened position. I used a bit of Molykote 111 (got a packet for $5 on eBay), but any NSF-approved silicone lubricant would probably do the trick.

2. The valve's movements are subtle. The range where the "action" happens (where the stop block is pushed from the closed to the open position) is limited (no more than 1-ish revolutions of the valve stem), and is very close to the fully open position (where the valve stem is fully screwed in), at least on my valve. I found a few tricks that helped me get it dialed in:
  • For me, due to the subtle movement of the valve, it was very difficult to see the spring moving up and down. What I did was cut a small piece of a plastic drinking straw and use that in place of the spring just while calibrating. The drinking straw fits perfectly over the end of the stop block where the spring sits, and because it is rigid, it's easier to see what's going on. You can cut the drinking straw prior to screwing the valve stem in so that, when sitting on top of the stop block, it is flush with the end of the valve. Then, as you screw the valve stem in and the valve finally engages, you will see the drinking straw rise slightly above the end of the valve. Again, the movement is subtle. I actually found that it helped to put my finger over the end of the valve while calibrating, where I could feel (rather than see) the drinking straw press into my finger as the valve engages.
  • You can also check the valve by sucking on it! If you suck on the larger nipple in the middle of the valve (where steam exits to the wand) while applying pressure to the spring sitting atop the stop block, you can tell whether the valve is open or closed. When open, you will be able to easily draw air in through the nipple; when closed, you will not.
  • I found that using the tactics above, I had to make a few mini adjustments to the "collar" piece by loosening the set screws, slightly rotating the valve, and then retightening the set screws. The goal was to get the collar adjusted so that when the valve is in the open position (long set screw depressing the limit switch), the straw is seen/felt to rise slightly and air can be sucked easily through the larger nipple; conversely, when the valve is rotated into the closed position (long set screw up against the metal "stop" on the limit switch mounting bracket), the straw should be flush with the valve body and no air can be sucked through the nipple.
I hope this helps someone undertaking this project!

One additional caution: be very careful when screwing the rebuilt steam valve back onto the boiler. I accidentally overtightened mine and stripped the threads. Now I am in the market for a brand new valve assembly...

OnThruTheChompers
Posts: 18
Joined: 4 months ago

#26: Post by OnThruTheChompers »

After stripping the original fitting while reattaching the rebuilt valve, I contacted Gee Coffee, the manufacturer of the machine, to order a complete replacement valve assembly. In this case, since I will be receiving a complete valve assembly, it does not make sense to follow the calibration approach mentioned in the previous posts, as this require the valve to be disassembled to observe the movement of the stop block.

Below is how I plan to calibrate the valve after it's installed. I ran this by the engineer at Gee Coffee and he concurred with these steps. I am posting it here in case it is helpful to anyone else:

1. Loosen the limit switch collar so that it turns freely on the shaft. Turn the fully installed valve to the fully-open position.
2. With the machine in normal operation (i.e., not in steam mode), depress the limit switch so that the pump operates continuously
*note* - be wary of the high-voltage connections on the boilers. It may make sense to disconnect/insulate these for safety. I plan to use a spare external limit switch for this step so that I am not having to reach inside the machine near high-voltage connections.
3. With the pump continuously on, water should be flowing out of the steam wand. Slowly turn the valve towards the closed position until the flow of water fully stops. The valve should now be in the "closed" position.
4. Turn off the machine. Tighten up the limit switch collar with the set screw in the "steam off"/"closed" position, i.e., with the long set screw up against the metal stop on the limit switch mounting bracket.
5. Now, the valve should be calibrated. When you rotate the valve into the "steam on" position, the set screw should depress the limit switch, the pump should turn on, and water/steam should flow.

Mark5902
Posts: 25
Joined: 1 year ago

#27: Post by Mark5902 »

Thanks for the info on calibrating the valve stem.

I was the person with the copper tube soldered to the steam valve in picture above.
I had to dismantle the boiler to get the steam valve off. That's not that hard but takes some time.
Just be careful you get the steam valve back on tight enough - mine was slightly leaking at high pressure (when running the pump during backflush). So I had to take it apart again to retighten, and put a ring of teflon tape around the steam valve where it hits the boiler.

Re: calibration: using my mouth to test when the valve is open or closed is a good way to check it.