drgary wrote:Hi Ray,

Here's a better view from re-cropping for close-up. The twisted off bolt end to the group is on the left. On that I'd need to get inside the boiler to catch the other end and replace it. The bolt where I had to cut off the head is on the right. For that one I'm thinking of cutting grooves in at 90 degree angles to try to turn it out with a phillips head screwdriver. If you need a better picture let me know. When you say "better picture," it might have to be better than this!

Fun stuff.

On the stud (at the 9 o'clock position, relative to the big open hole), I would say vise grips would probably do the trick. You can heat things up a bit with a blow torch also (and put some WD40 into the mix also). Then clamp down some vise grips and start turning. The other option would be to weld a nut onto it (as the welding action would put plenty of heat into the mix) and then stick an impact wrench on top of it and spin it off.

Not sure about your request for information on an "impact screw driver", but an impact wrench would be helpful on some of this stuff, especially when used in conjunction with some of the female screw extractor deals that you can find at places like OSH. As far as brands, you can find decent stuff at Home Depot (where they sell the impact tools). Myself, I like Ingersoll Rand.

On the bolt to the right, again, I would start by trying some vise grip pliers and see if you have any luck (along with some heat and WD40). Another approach might be to center drill the studs that you need to remove there and then drive a husky screw extractor into it. However, the screw extractors are generally hardened and so you have to be careful that you don't snap them off. If you do, then they typically prevent any further drilling into the stud.

A MIG welder is very handy in this situation, since you can just weld a hex nut to the top of the broken off bolts and then use an impact wrench and/or breaker bar to free them up.

Remember, in situations like these, heat is usually your friend.

Start with the vise grips. That usually produces results if you take your time.

Ray

Here are the nut extractors that come in handy

http://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Industrial- ... B0000CCXVZ

Not sure if they go down small enough for the studs, but it's possible. They usually have a pretty good collection of broken bolt extractors are OSH and auto parts stores (such as AutoZone).

Ray

drgary wrote:For that one I'm thinking of cutting grooves in at 90 degree angles to try to turn it out with a phillips head screwdriver.

you're beyond screw driver land here... most likely.

bring out the gimp! I mean the vise grips...





In my experience with removing broken nuts/bolts, etc. it's generally best to add material and grab onto that if possible, as opposed to cutting away or drilling away material. If the bolt is really struck, you don't want to take material away and weaken what you have to work with. It's usually better to try to add some bulk into the mix if possible (and as mentioned, if you do that via welding, the heat produced will often help you out in the long run).

I remember one time, I snapped the oil sending unit off the side of the block on my motor. Stuck some vise grips on the part that was left, but it broke off flush to the block. I tried a screw extractor and it snapped off. I tried drilling everything out, the drill broke off. I tried drilling the threaded part that snapped off out, but couldn't get a big drill into the engine bay at the right angle.

What a mess. After an hour and a half of trying to remove the broken off piece, I finally gave up. Luckily, I was in the process of building a race motor to go into the car. I still had to use the motor with the broken oil sending unit to drive my car, so I ended up just breaking out my welding torch and brazing shut the entire mess on the side of the block. It looked like @#$%, but no oil leaked I drove it around like that (and with no oil pressure gauge/light on the dash) for about 6 months until it was time to pull the motor and install the new one.

So, work slowly. Sometimes things can go very, very wrong if you don't take your time.

In fact, speaking of which, the motor that was due to be installed... I had put studs into the cylinder head, so that I could attach the headers and intake manifold using small nuts, instead of trying to use bolts to install it. Anyway, while doing the final assembly, I applied too much torque and snapped off one of the studs.

Okay, no problem... the motor is on a stand. I'll just pull everything back off, drill out the stud, install a new one, etc. So I do that. I take the headers off and the intake and start to center drill the stud. Freaking drill slips (while I have all my force on it) and drills a perfect hole right into the cylinder head (next to the stud). Beautiful. The stud came right out - given that I had accidentally drilled away part of its hole! I just wiggled it and it came right out.

So that part was good.. but re-installing a new stud wasn't so great. Especially when you consider this was holding the headers on the cylinder head and would be getting super hot. Ideally, I would have taken the head off and welded it, but the heat from welding causes the head to warp. That means you have to surface it and it also means it usually causes the oil passage through the head to crack. And, since I had already surfaced the block and head, it would have meant having to shim the cam towers.

I ended up using a combination of JB weld and this product known as a "time sert". It's basically for replacing threads when the hole is messed up. The time-sert is larger, so you cut new threads and then the inside of the insert is threaded, so it brings your original threads back into play. They are quite handy and if you end up with any threaded holes that are messed up, you might keep them in mind.

Anyway, like I say, things can go very wrong if you aren't careful. Take your time and approach things very slowly.

Based on your photos, I think you probably stand a pretty good chance with some vise grips and some heat.

Ray

Ray, I have to hand it to you...."things can go very wrong"...priceless comment. And don't forget the second part which you add if the process involves using a machine which is spinning at high rpm...very wrong and really fast.
Oxy/acetylene torch on the bolt until cherry red then the grip will remove it like butter. Or touch the bolt with a welder. Need a lot of heat here by the looks of the rust...oil will work if you can bead blast it clean.

RayJons wrote:Not sure about your request for information on an "impact screw driver", but an impact wrench would be helpful on some of this stuff....

You mean there's a difference???

RayJohns wrote:I remember one time, I snapped the oil sending unit off the side of the block on my motor. Stuck some vise grips on the part that was left, but it broke off flush to the block. I tried a screw extractor and it snapped off. I tried drilling everything out, the drill broke off. I tried drilling the threaded part that snapped off out, but couldn't get a big drill into the engine bay at the right angle.

What a mess. After an hour and a half of trying to remove the broken off piece, I finally gave up.

Oy!

orphanespresso wrote:Oxy/acetylene torch on the bolt until cherry red then the grip will remove it like butter. Or touch the bolt with a welder. Need a lot of heat here by the looks of the rust...oil will work if you can bead blast it clean.

Vey!

Since I don't have an oxy/acetylene torch lying around, and I wouldn't trust myself with one if I had it, I think you're suggesting I take this to a machine shop and have that bolt extracted, right?

orphanespresso wrote:Ray, I have to hand it to you...."things can go very wrong"...priceless comment. And don't forget the second part which you add if the process involves using a machine which is spinning at high rpm...very wrong and really fast.
Oxy/acetylene torch on the bolt until cherry red then the grip will remove it like butter. Or touch the bolt with a welder. Need a lot of heat here by the looks of the rust...oil will work if you can bead blast it clean.

haha.. yeah, I thought you might get a kick out of that comment, since you restore stuff / fabricate also.

and +1 on your high RPM comment also. Just last week, the chuck came off the JT33 taper on my drill press while I was spinning an end mill at 7000 RPM's. That wasn't pretty. Luckily the edge of the vise trapped everything in place until it spun down. The vise took some abuse and the end mill is probably a write off, but at least I still have my fingers.

I'm going to have to check the specs on the taper shortly here; I think I might have changed the taper by sanding things down to clean up some burrs or something.

BTW, loving my OE cup. Thanks again. Did you catch the cameos in the couple of videos I made last week on the PID controller?

Ray

drgary wrote:Vey!

Since I don't have an oxy/acetylene torch lying around, and I wouldn't trust myself with one if I had it, I think you're suggesting I take this to a machine shop and have that bolt extracted, right?

No, not at all. Do you have a blow torch handy? If not, you can pickup a little propane one at Home Depot. I think there is also another gas they offer, but I can't remember what it's called. I have some down stairs in the garage, I can check. I'm not sure if it burns hotter or what.

Anyway, just use the vise grips, WD40 and some heat from a little hand held blow torch. Should come right out.

Ray

they do make impact screw drivers, but typically they are operated by impact from a hammer. I don't think that's what you want here.

Do you have vise grips? That's probably the answer.

Ray

OK, Ray. Looks like I'm in business. I've got a propane torch and vice grips and even WD40. I'll give it a try and let you know. I'll also take your advice to avoid removing mass from the stuck bolt.

orphanespresso wrote:Need a lot of heat here by the looks of the rust...oil will work if you can bead blast it clean.

Doug,

Since I don't have a bead blaster in my garage, I'm thinking of using the wire polishing attachment to my Dremel tool to clean off the rust that way. Do you think that's worth a try?

Doug and Ray,

I just applied some penetrating oil and will let it sit until I try and open the boiler and address the cut-off bolt head at that time. BTW, someone suggested a combination of heat and cold. Is it worth getting some freezing spray too and alternate between heat and cold to try and get some expansion followed by contraction to free things up?