CMA Astoria CK auto fill not working

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
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FOCKER

#1: Post by FOCKER »

Hi everybody, I just bought an used CMA Astoria Compact Ck 1 Group for a really cheap price. the machine has a reservoir and can be plumbed in . It was used occasionally and it was stored for a long time
When i'd got it, I turn it on for a test and the boiler does not fill. I Turned the group on and the water pass through so the pump works well. I don't know if the boiler was filled with water since it was put out on storage. so i disconnected the level probe to see if it start to fill up but nothing.
I tried to research some wiring diagram about this machine but i couldn't find anything
Does anyone own this machine or any similar? what should i do?
Please Help!!
Here is a pic of the machine
Image
Greetings from Argentina
Ps: Sorry my bad english

User avatar
erics

#2: Post by erics »

what sould i do?
You should peruse the downloads section of this forum.

/downloads/
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

User avatar
FOCKER

#3: Post by FOCKER »

I looked into the download section but there isn't a service manual for this model. there is one for an Astoria 2 group machine but it is not the same that i have
I don't know if the problem is maybe the control box because the brewing group and hot water tap works well but the autofill wont start and then the red light come on and everything stop working till i turn off and turn on or maybe is the main valve that is stuck but i suppose that the pump should start anyway

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erics

#4: Post by erics »

I SUSPECT that there is a double pole single throw (DPST) relay in the control box that is not working.

Another possibility (although slim) would be that the wire lead from the level probe is accidently grounded to the chassis as it weaves its way to the control box.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

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FOCKER

#5: Post by FOCKER »

Hello Eric, thank you for your answer.
I changed the relay for a new one but the problem still remain. i check the the continity from de level sensor to ground and it's open, the level wire continuity to ground is open too
i can't find any schematic to find the problem. the controler box is GIEMME MFC2SN-B
Here are some pics of the board

This is the AC side:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 215344.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 215228.jpg
back of the AC side:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 61bb84.jpg

The DC side:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 44c653.jpg
Back:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 215401.jpg

Old relay:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc22 ... 156581.jpg

Ichecked the zener diodes and they are ok
Idon't know what else i can check
Thanks

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erics

#6: Post by erics »

Here is what little I know:

The relay which sends power to the boiler fill solenoid AND the pump simultaneously is powered by DC voltage somewhere between 12-18 volts. There is a transformer on your control board which converts your line voltage to 12-18 volts AC and that AC is then rectified to power the relay(s).

So, you need to also check that the transformer is behaving properly . . . you are (obviously) skilled so this should not be a difficult job.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

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FOCKER

#7: Post by FOCKER »

erics wrote:Here is what little I know:
So, you need to also check that the transformer is behaving properly . . . you are (obviously) skilled so this should not be a difficult job.
I think the transformer is working becouse the brew relay and the heating element relay are. But i will check the transformer voltage from the secundary coil...
Thanks for the complement, by the way. I'm a Mechanical Engineer
I'll keep you inform

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erics

#8: Post by erics »

I'm a Mechanical Engineer
I am also - Diesels and Steam - but now retired.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

User avatar
FOCKER

#9: Post by FOCKER »

Ok, I checked the trasformer and is Ok
I followed the circuit from the relay actuators and I found 3 transistor for each relay, they works as a switch, so I thought "Here's the problem, this circuit is foult" and I swaped with the other transistor next to it that controls the heating element relay like this:
Image
if I was right when I'd connect the board again, it should fill the boiler and the heating element should not work, right?
But the auto fill still isn't work and as a bonus the heating element blew off. This is for not have water in the boiler but an awful coincidence
My digital electronic knowledge is limited
so my last chance is to replace the 2 operatinal amplifiers, LM324 and LM358 hoping that it works. If not I'm Lost
Eric if you have another advise, please let me know

Ps: I hope to make me understand, my English is not that great

User avatar
erics

#10: Post by erics »

Now it becomes a question of money.

It is very easy to manually fill the boiler (say 2/3 of full) once a replacement heating element is fitted. But now you are facing the monies for a heating element (hopefully used, but good) and a control board that would fit the application. Can all of this be done . . . of course . . . but the costs would exceed the machine value.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com