Cimbali Junior S1 over pressure

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
Ians

#1: Post by Ians »

Im new here...Ive done some searching and reading but still after a little help if I may please. I live in Australia, used to own a Cimbali jnr D 15y ago and currently have a Domus past 10 y in my office (not bad in my experience), but just acquired another Jnr but tanked and marked S/1 build 1999 for $400AUD. its had the tank sensor removed so no low level warning, I can live with that but the pressure gauge is ranging from 0.8bar to well into the red zone. the machine makes good steam, pours a shot fine and the hot water tap works fine. I think. however the pressure gauge should only run between 0.9 - 11.0bar from what ive read?

Does this mean a new pressure stat is needed (i descaled it yesterday with citric acid, got a lot of black sand sized junk out of it but its still doing the same. Ive enclosed a pic of the thing i think is the pressure stat, please correct me if wrong. thanks
Ian



Ians (original poster)

#2: Post by Ians (original poster) »

Ok so that's a solenoid valve not pressure stat. Ive found and removed the pressure stat and now cleaned though didn't look too bad which may mean adjustment maybe the fix. Will see. Sorry about the public learning curve

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civ

#3: Post by civ »

Hello:
Ians wrote: Im new here ...
Welcome to HB. 8^)
Ians wrote: ... another Jnr but tanked and marked S/1 build 1999 ...
... had the tank sensor removed so no low level warning ...
That's a risk I would not take with my Cimbali.

It is very easy to get distracted/not notice low boiler level as the boiler is not too big.
And heating elements for Cimbalis are quite dear.
Ians wrote: ... pressure gauge ...
... well into the red zone.
Does this mean ...
It only means is that the pressure gauge in a used machine with an unknown (?) maintenance record is telling you that the pressure is at a certain level.
Could be that the gauge is not reading properly, the pressurestat is not properly adjusted or out of whack, or even a mix of both.

Do you know how the machine was working before you purchased it?
Have any idea of its service/repair history for the last 3/5 years?

If you see it has severe scale issues then you should give it a general clean up.
There are a great many Cimbali Junior/S1 posts here at HB which will steer you in the right direction.
HB's search function is your friend.

That said, you can check the boiler pressure very quickly with a pressure gauge on a silicone tube attached to the end of the steam wand.
I once slapped together something temporary for use on my Pavonis to check boiler pressure when idling:



If I recall correctly, that was probably back in 2005/6.
It still works perfectly well and has seen no upgrades since.

So much for temporary things ...

Do let us know how you fare with this.

Best,

CIV

Ians (original poster)

#4: Post by Ians (original poster) »

Apparently was working fine and used daily until about 6m ago. Has some rust in frame so I will strip and repair once I know nothing needs replacing.
Have reconnected the diving bell and wires to the tank sensor. Thanks for the hint!
Had a superb fw from it this am. Pressure stat adjustment still being fine tuned. Doesnt seem entirely consistent so prob need to check the pressure gauge accuracy. Woukd putting a gauge directly into top of boiler be a reasonable way of doing that?

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civ

#5: Post by civ »

Hello:
Ians wrote: ... working fine and used daily until about 6m ago.
Right ...

But what is important is the service record to get an idea of the current status.
ie: What was done and when was it done.
Ians wrote: ... will strip and repair once I know nothing needs replacing.
There are quite a few excellent threads on refurbishing La Cimbali machines here at HB.
Ians wrote: ... reconnected the diving bell and wires to the tank sensor.
Good.
Peace of mind is important.
Ians wrote: Pressure stat adjustment ... still being fine tuned.
Doesnt seem entirely consistent ...
The pressurestat is most probably a Sirai: an indestructible workhorse.
But the membrane will eventually stretch and as a result the deadband will widen considerably.

See this thread describing a rebuid: Elektra A3 - how to rebuild Sirai pressurestat and descale

There is also a kit to replace the membrane/s which will make it as good as new again:
https://www.voltagerestaurantsupply.com ... occo-l2701

But shop around for the right price, the same rebuild kit can go from ~ US$25.00 to US$70.00 (!)
And check that it is for the right model number Sirai.
Ians wrote: ... need to check the pressure gauge ...
Yes.
Ians wrote: ... putting a gauge directly into top of boiler ...
No, don't even think of it.

Make yourself a contraption like the one I posted a photo of.
On the end you have a silicon tube of the right size to tightly fit the steam wand without the nozzle, which can be screwed off.

You fit the silicone tube over the steam wand tube and if necessary, put a cable zip-tie to keep it from leaking.

You must to be able to control the test via the steam wand tap, opening it slowly and checking the pressure on the gauge at the other end of the silicone tube.

Best,

CIV

Ians (original poster)

#6: Post by Ians (original poster) »

Thank you for your advice - invaluable.

User avatar
civ

#7: Post by civ »

Hello:
Ians wrote: Thank you ...
You're welcome.
But I'm only passing on what I've learnt about here at HB.
In itself, an invaluable source of information.

Let us know how you fared with this.

Best,

CIV

rustyfence

#8: Post by rustyfence »

I have a newer model E98 Compact S1, which had a failing pressurestat when I purchased it. The pstat in mine is actually a bespoke Cimbali part, very expensive, and not all that great. I was able to repair mine by cleaning out the calc build-up under the diaphragm, and also replacing the microswitch for just a few dollars. It would have been better if I could have replaced the Cimbali part with an off-the-shelf Sirai, but there just wasn't enough room. Hopefully yours already has a Sirai !

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civ

#9: Post by civ »

Hello:
rustyfence wrote: ... bespoke Cimbali part, very expensive, and not all that great.
Like most/all Cimbali labelled parts, quite expensive.
Many times replaceable from off the shelf or parts shared by other OEMs.

I always recall the case of the water intake valve for the doser reservoir (ca. 2000 Cimbali Jr. D/1).
It's a basic, AC actuated two-way washing machine/dishwasher electrovalve which you can usualy get for between ~US$5.00/15.00, depending on the usual details such as brand, purveyor, etc.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124720483890?h ... SwCOJgm3tN

The Cimbali label makes the price jump considerably.
https://www.cafeparts.com/Fill-Valve-12 ... /530595600

Eventually I got tired of these valves leaking and replaced it with a Parker valve.
No more problems, ever.
rustyfence wrote: ... repair mine by cleaning out the calc build-up under the diaphragm ...
... replacing the microswitch for just a few dollars.
Well done.
Never seen one of these taken apart but usually the problem is getting a spare to replace a stretched diaphgram.
rustyfence wrote: ... better if I could have replaced the Cimbali part with an off-the-shelf Sirai ...
For the next time, check Paul Pratt's page on the subject:
http://www.espresso-restorations.com/p-stats.html

Best,

CIV

Ians (original poster)

#10: Post by Ians (original poster) »

im not winning!
pulled the frame apart, removed the rust, painted, cleaned things. replaced stat with a new sirai unit and adjusted.
now, turn on, hear the stat switch off, about 0.7 bar. flush some steam, flush some hot water, run the group, then the stat brings the pressure up to about 1.5 bar!
this valve on the front drips, ive pulled it apart, cleaned, the rubber seal a bit old and hard, Ive put a small bike tube repair patch on the end to help it seal.
I bought a cheap pressure gauge from eBay, that's now sitting where the normal one is mounted, it does same thing so i dont think gauge at fault.
please...where to from here? why does the pressure first settle around 0.7 then pretty much doubles?

on a grinder buying mission too after all the reading ive been doing here.
thanks
ian