Building the Ultimate La Pavoni Europiccola - Page 14

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
User avatar
homeburrero
Team HB

#131: Post by homeburrero »

max wrote:Side note: Based on Francesco's site and lamacchinadelcaffe, it seems like the 12+ coil is the old, whereas the 6-7 is the one for AV.
You're right! Looking at pictures online, and also at the parts catalog it is pretty clear. Part #311406 is a 15 coil spring, and part #311407 is an 8 coil spring (they are counting the end coils.) That 8 coil spring looks like the same one that has been used in pressurestat-equipped machines since the early Professionals. The #311406 (15 coil) is the one to buy if you have an old dual element non-pStat machine (see Descaled La Pavoni Europiccola with pressurestat - now safety valve hisses - normal?)
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

max

#132: Post by max »

I now realize that I had only referenced Franco's anti-vac from memory. That is what caused confusion. Like Francesco, I'm not using a new housing, but instead the old one. Franco points out that the new housing is necessary, since it's different. I suspect the difference is the depth, which is solved by the teflon ball.
redbone wrote:Great setup and well executed. I'm in the process of doing something similar. Where did you acquire the stronger spring with Teflon ball ?
I am using the spring that comes with the anti-vac assembly. The teflon ball is the ball which preceded the anti-vac. However, it seems like the original ball also does the job.

To more precisely answer your question of where: I bought it from Francesco.

User avatar
drgary
Team HB

#133: Post by drgary »

max wrote:I am using the spring that comes with the anti-vac assembly. The teflon ball is the ball which preceded the anti-vac. However, it seems like the original ball also does the job.
I discuss that option halfway down this post on page 10 of this thread.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

User avatar
homeburrero
Team HB

#134: Post by homeburrero »

Max,
Can you explain why you can't use the whole assembly, including the valve body in these '74 and earlier Pavoni? I've read Franco's post carefully but it's still not clear to me - looks to me like the boiler-side fittings are the same, and would seal with the same nut and copper washer on the inside.



I'm clearly missing something, because otherwise Franco would have bolted on the whole new assembly. Does the new valve body not fit the old boiler hole?
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

User avatar
redbone

#135: Post by redbone »

What about double balling it, a ball on both ends effectively adding more tension to the existing spring. I've had success with stretching the spring a bit longer for added tension.
It's imperative that this area is cleaned well including ball and seat since a little debris can impair the seal.
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.


Rob
LMWDP #549

User avatar
drgary
Team HB

#136: Post by drgary »

Not necessary, although it might work. I like to cut a shim because I can control the thickness and add one or more. I tune the amount of shimming using a manometer to see when the pressure starts releasing steam.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

max

#137: Post by max »

Just to clarify:

drgary wrote:I discuss that option halfway down this post on page 10 of this thread.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding:
I think we're discussing the same issue, but different solutions. On the boiler side, I have the anti-vac plug. I use the teflon/steel ball where you have the shims. To be precise, I use this assembly: http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/Annun ... _31040.htm
homeburrero wrote:Max,
Can you explain why you can't use the whole assembly, including the valve body in these '74 and earlier Pavoni? I've read Franco's post carefully but it's still not clear to me - looks to me like the boiler-side fittings are the same, and would seal with the same nut and copper washer on the inside. I'm clearly missing something, because otherwise Franco would have bolted on the whole new assembly. Does the new valve body not fit the old boiler hole?
I will refer to the pieces as body and cap to avoid confusion. I don't have the new assembly, but modern body doesn't fit the hole:
pizzigri wrote:So, I realized - the hard way, I had already bought the parts - that the threading of the post 1974, no brass sleeved groups, use an OPV that is threaded through the boiler and is fastened with an inner hex bolt.
Of course, the diameter of the OPV base is different, as is painfully obvious looking at the pictures.
(emphasis added)

Franco said that also the original cap has to be replaced, but doesn't specify why (apart from pointing out they're different). In this post:
pizzigri wrote:I'd like to remember that the antivacuum body valve part no. 396751 assembly has to be purchased anyway, even if we plan to modify the original OPV base and scrap the antivacuum OPV, because the body that contains the valve spring and plug is also quite different.
Since (if I haven't misunderstood) Franco is not using drgary's shims nor Francescos teflon ball, I'm guessing that the depth is the difference. This evening I tried three different things: 8-coil + teflon, 8-coil + metal ball, and 15-coil + teflon. All with the original cap and anti-vac to the boiler. The only one which didn't vent steam was the 8-coil + teflon combination.
redbone wrote:What about double balling it, a ball on both ends effectively adding more tension to the existing spring.
This is what I'm doing, but one ball being the anti-vac. See picture above.

User avatar
drgary
Team HB

#138: Post by drgary »

That anti-vac solution, reversing the Teflon mushroom, looks really good.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

max

#139: Post by max »

Most of the original version of this post is relevant also to non-modded 1st gen machines. It is therefore posted here: Taming the 1st gen Europiccola

I left some of my observations on overheating of the Ultimate EP here. The details on how I measure temperature is presented in the thread above.


Some remains of original post:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My first and foremost goal when starting the Ultimate Eurpiccola project was to be able to turn on the machine and go for a shower in the morning. I was also hoping to make my girlfriend the milk drinks (with art) that she so much likes...

It turns out I can't do both.

I currently have my p-stat set to somewhere around 0.6 bar. Already at this level, the group heats up very fast. Too fast, at least for shaving. However, lowering the pressure would further reduce the success frequency of my latte art. The final nail in the coffin is that I have found myself operating the machine as if it were a 2-switch model, turning it on and off just to make that second shot. Disregarding convenience, I would rather have a real 2-switch version.

Similar issues were also described by the buyer of Francesco's 1st gen p-stat machine. The buyer had also bought a normal 1st gen and found it performed much better (my guess: due to temperature)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The point of the post was to propose an idea for improving these temperature issues. Based on initial tests of a crude prototype, it seems to work. Full information is provided in the other thread.

User avatar
drgary
Team HB

#140: Post by drgary »

I've now mounted a group thermometer on my "Ultimate" Europiccola. Here's a photo and a link to that thread.



Mounting Group Thermometer on 1st Generation La Pavoni
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!