Breville/Sage Bambino Plus all lights flashing - fix guide
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- Posts: 30
- Joined: 4 years ago
Hey!
Thought I'd make a topic here, for future reference if anyone else is running into this issue.
Got my hands on a broken Bambino Plus, from I think 2021. When plugged in & turned on, it flashes the three. big buttons 3 times, then it does nothing except all the lights flashing at the same time. Nothing works or gives any response.
I figured this is because the mainboard doesn't want to boot up properly (won't POST, in computer terms).
Openend it up and did a general inspection, nothing seemed weird. The machine was clean inside, no leaks visible.
Pulled the mainboard out and removed all sensor connections and measured them. (230V AC / EU MODEL)
Know that only the big white board needs to be pulled. The tiny white covered board that connects to the front of the machine is a FET that uses the front as cooling. Since all electronic boards inside the Bambino (plus) have conformal coating, water / condensed water probably won't damage anything. The front / button plate are solely buttons and lights. We know they work since we've seen it flash. No intellect there AFAIK.
For this you need to remove the wires that connect in the back-top of the mainboard, and the tube for the steam temp sensor. Also the wires to the front button assembly needs to be removed at the front of the machine. The big power wires aren't very flexible so you need some gentle force to move it clear. Make sure you don't pull out any wires wrongly. The tiny plugs can be removed, they are color coded:
The Bambino Plus has these sensors:
- PID / heating element temp sensor (NTC) / Blue (I 'think' it's a 50k NTC) (should read 67k at 18c, 50k at 25c)
- Water tank level sensor (Reed sensor) / Black (should REED infinite, or 0 ohms when placed a magnet against.
- Steam wand position sensor (microswitch) / Yellow (infinite or 0ohm depending on position)
- Milk frothing temp sensor (50k NTC) / White connector with anthracite wires (should read something near 50k at 25c- mine read infinite, not OK)
- Flow control sensor (thick white plug with green/white/red wires). (You can't measure this, it's a hall sensor, prob works fine since this should't give any boot issues)
- Steam pressure sensor? I think this is what it is - a tube that comes from the steam wand onto a sensor on the board itself. (can't measure this, prob fine if it looks fine. shouldn't give any boot issues)
On my machine, the main control board looked in excellent condition, and the fuse measured OK. So measured all incoming power connections. (usually on the parts themselves, because tracing wires in annoying, and I don't suspect a power wire failure off the start)
- Heating element resistance. 31 ohm range
- Ulka pump in the 3mOhm range
- tiny steam motor thingy, can't remember exactly but something like 20k i think - (can vary, but it has to be SOMETHING)
- both magnetic valves, something in the 20k range.
Now the great reveal: On my specific machine, the sensor/NTC for the milk temperature gave infinite resistance when measured. This is not OK. The temp sensor is located under a plastic click tab which you can remove, after pulling the white part off the metal thingy that is the sensor. (the thingy that's in the rubber). The wires are sort of 'crimped' with shrink tube onto the sensor wires.
One of the wires came off super easy (accidentally) - I suspected something there - but the sensor itself gave also infinite resistance when measured directly.
Since the PID/heating element NTC measured +- 68k at my 18c workbench. I put in a 68k resistor between the two wires of the sensor.
This tricked the main board into thinking the sensor is OK and proceeded to boot normally. Ofcourse this does not solve the broken temp sensor, but does allow you to steam manually and make espresso.
If anyone here could measure the resistance of their working bambino plus, at different temperatures (room, body temp, hot water in a milk pitcher?) - that'd be amazing. For now I think i'll order a 10k and 50k NTC. The heating element temp sensor read 68k at around 18c, so I figured that's in range of being a 50k NTC. Knowing engineering a bit, can very much imagine they'd use the same value on the milk NTC. Also - hopefully abundant - if for some reason your thermal element PID sensor is broken, please don't fix it by adding a resistor!
Can always make sure the cutoff point is correct by using the 10k and adding resistors to 'increase' the cut-off temp.
Hope this helps anyone in the future diagnosing and repairing their Bambino (plus)! If so, comment below on your (succes) story.
Cheers
Thought I'd make a topic here, for future reference if anyone else is running into this issue.
Got my hands on a broken Bambino Plus, from I think 2021. When plugged in & turned on, it flashes the three. big buttons 3 times, then it does nothing except all the lights flashing at the same time. Nothing works or gives any response.
I figured this is because the mainboard doesn't want to boot up properly (won't POST, in computer terms).
Openend it up and did a general inspection, nothing seemed weird. The machine was clean inside, no leaks visible.
Pulled the mainboard out and removed all sensor connections and measured them. (230V AC / EU MODEL)
Know that only the big white board needs to be pulled. The tiny white covered board that connects to the front of the machine is a FET that uses the front as cooling. Since all electronic boards inside the Bambino (plus) have conformal coating, water / condensed water probably won't damage anything. The front / button plate are solely buttons and lights. We know they work since we've seen it flash. No intellect there AFAIK.
For this you need to remove the wires that connect in the back-top of the mainboard, and the tube for the steam temp sensor. Also the wires to the front button assembly needs to be removed at the front of the machine. The big power wires aren't very flexible so you need some gentle force to move it clear. Make sure you don't pull out any wires wrongly. The tiny plugs can be removed, they are color coded:
The Bambino Plus has these sensors:
- PID / heating element temp sensor (NTC) / Blue (I 'think' it's a 50k NTC) (should read 67k at 18c, 50k at 25c)
- Water tank level sensor (Reed sensor) / Black (should REED infinite, or 0 ohms when placed a magnet against.
- Steam wand position sensor (microswitch) / Yellow (infinite or 0ohm depending on position)
- Milk frothing temp sensor (50k NTC) / White connector with anthracite wires (should read something near 50k at 25c- mine read infinite, not OK)
- Flow control sensor (thick white plug with green/white/red wires). (You can't measure this, it's a hall sensor, prob works fine since this should't give any boot issues)
- Steam pressure sensor? I think this is what it is - a tube that comes from the steam wand onto a sensor on the board itself. (can't measure this, prob fine if it looks fine. shouldn't give any boot issues)
On my machine, the main control board looked in excellent condition, and the fuse measured OK. So measured all incoming power connections. (usually on the parts themselves, because tracing wires in annoying, and I don't suspect a power wire failure off the start)
- Heating element resistance. 31 ohm range
- Ulka pump in the 3mOhm range
- tiny steam motor thingy, can't remember exactly but something like 20k i think - (can vary, but it has to be SOMETHING)
- both magnetic valves, something in the 20k range.
Now the great reveal: On my specific machine, the sensor/NTC for the milk temperature gave infinite resistance when measured. This is not OK. The temp sensor is located under a plastic click tab which you can remove, after pulling the white part off the metal thingy that is the sensor. (the thingy that's in the rubber). The wires are sort of 'crimped' with shrink tube onto the sensor wires.
One of the wires came off super easy (accidentally) - I suspected something there - but the sensor itself gave also infinite resistance when measured directly.
Since the PID/heating element NTC measured +- 68k at my 18c workbench. I put in a 68k resistor between the two wires of the sensor.
This tricked the main board into thinking the sensor is OK and proceeded to boot normally. Ofcourse this does not solve the broken temp sensor, but does allow you to steam manually and make espresso.
If anyone here could measure the resistance of their working bambino plus, at different temperatures (room, body temp, hot water in a milk pitcher?) - that'd be amazing. For now I think i'll order a 10k and 50k NTC. The heating element temp sensor read 68k at around 18c, so I figured that's in range of being a 50k NTC. Knowing engineering a bit, can very much imagine they'd use the same value on the milk NTC. Also - hopefully abundant - if for some reason your thermal element PID sensor is broken, please don't fix it by adding a resistor!
Can always make sure the cutoff point is correct by using the 10k and adding resistors to 'increase' the cut-off temp.
Hope this helps anyone in the future diagnosing and repairing their Bambino (plus)! If so, comment below on your (succes) story.
Cheers
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- Posts: 1
- Joined: 10 months ago
This article was a life saver! We had sent back theee machines with this problem and we're being quoted big bucks to fix again as warranty had run out. The resistor trick worked exactly as described and we now have a working coffee machine, although without the milk temp sensor.
Did the 50k NTC work as a replacement for the resistir?
Did the 50k NTC work as a replacement for the resistir?
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- Posts: 68
- Joined: 2 years ago
Had a broken Bambino myself. Auto steam sensor was ok, but got infinite resistance from the thermojet sensor so looking if replacing the thermojet will make it work again.Caffeine wrote:If anyone here could measure the resistance of their working bambino plus, at different temperatures (room, body temp, hot water in a milk pitcher?) - that'd be amazing.
Did a quick measurement for the steam temp sensor:
25c - 49k
40c - 30k
60c - 14k
70c - 10k
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- Posts: 30
- Joined: 4 years ago
Thanks for your replies!
I kindof forgot about this topic
Yes, thanks to the info that it was actually a 50k NTC as expected, I took out the old thermosensor, drilled out the middle a bit (where the old sensor was glued in), and epoxied a new one in.
Cheap fix, under 1$ on AliExpress!
Auto steam works a charm again. Temp is spot on.
I kindof forgot about this topic
Yes, thanks to the info that it was actually a 50k NTC as expected, I took out the old thermosensor, drilled out the middle a bit (where the old sensor was glued in), and epoxied a new one in.
Cheap fix, under 1$ on AliExpress!
Auto steam works a charm again. Temp is spot on.
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- Posts: 2
- Joined: 6 months ago
Hi, thanks for confirming that it is a 50K NTC but could you provide the aliexpress link or more details so that we can order the same one?
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- Posts: 1
- Joined: 5 months ago
Hello all, I experienced the same problem on my Bambino Plus BES500BTR and was able to resolve my issue by buying this part (NTC Thermistors 50k 3760 1%) at mouser electronics, drilling out the old thermistor (carefully) and reinstalling the new thermistor using epoxy. I recommend thermal conductive epoxy if you can find it, if not this repair works with cheap dollar store epoxy as well.
Part link: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/871-B57861S503F40
Was a little tricky drilling out the old thermistor and re-soldering the super tiny wires but this was doable even by a novice like myself.
A word of warning, if you are not comfortable doing this repair do not open your machine. Create an account at Breville.com create a trouble ticket in their system, upload a video of your machine doing it's thing. They will take FOREVER to respond (think 2 weeks) but they will eventually work with you to ship them the unit and they will fix if under warranty or charge you for the fix if not under warranty. I have no idea what they will charge for the fix, as I was able to fix it myself.
If you are not comfortable buying the thermistor and fixing it as described in this guide, you can go to https://outwestcoffee.com.au/product/nt ... r-bambino/ and they sell the actual replacement milk sensor kit. Bit more expensive with part and shipping, but easier repair.
Good luck!
Part link: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/871-B57861S503F40
Was a little tricky drilling out the old thermistor and re-soldering the super tiny wires but this was doable even by a novice like myself.
A word of warning, if you are not comfortable doing this repair do not open your machine. Create an account at Breville.com create a trouble ticket in their system, upload a video of your machine doing it's thing. They will take FOREVER to respond (think 2 weeks) but they will eventually work with you to ship them the unit and they will fix if under warranty or charge you for the fix if not under warranty. I have no idea what they will charge for the fix, as I was able to fix it myself.
If you are not comfortable buying the thermistor and fixing it as described in this guide, you can go to https://outwestcoffee.com.au/product/nt ... r-bambino/ and they sell the actual replacement milk sensor kit. Bit more expensive with part and shipping, but easier repair.
Good luck!
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- Posts: 30
- Joined: 4 years ago
I got the 50k one of this link (although practically any 50k that physically fits the metal housing should work)
http://aliexpress.com/item/1005003080936134.html?
can repair 10 BB+ for 1.3euro
http://aliexpress.com/item/1005003080936134.html?
can repair 10 BB+ for 1.3euro
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- Posts: 1
- Joined: 3 months ago
This was a lifesaver! Breville does not officially support its products in Japan, where my wife and I live. We purchased this on Amazon (not realizing that it would not be covered under warranty). 4 months later, the machine refused to work with the all lights flashing issue. After countless emails to Breville and Amazon, we received no support and we were stuck with an expensive paper weight for months. I am fairly handy and have put together electronics and played with Arduinos before, so I thought I would give this a whirl. The resistor worked like a charm (and I plan on buying a new temperature sensor and installing that in the future). We have our machine back! Again, you guys are awesome!! Thanks for sharing. Best, Joshua in Kobe, Japan
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- Posts: 2
- Joined: 2 months ago
Does anyone know how far off the frothing would be with a regular epoxy? I have managed to do the rest of the repair but have not been able to easily source Thermally Conductive Epoxy....
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- Posts: 2
- Joined: 2 months ago
The answer to myself is the auto froth temp is quite a bit off with regular epoxy - when I get the gusto I will re-drill it out and use another thermistor with the proper epoxy - but I can deal with manual frothing for a while - at least i can make coffee again. This thread was a blessing.