Hello All,

First, a huge thank you to this great forum and all the info here. This is my first post, though I have read and learned a lot for years on here. Thank you all!

At long last I'm posting because I've not found on this forum (or others) an answer to my specific problem of the Breville Oracle BES980XL not quite getting up to proper temperature.

How I got here: My machine was tripping the GFI outlet repeatedly. Enough so that I couldn't even pull a full shot. So the machine went on the shelf for 2 years, and I've been drinking Mr. Coffee ever since.

In the past few months I've started researching and tinkering. I first tried cleaning 3 solenoid valves -- thanks much to some youtube vids (this one was perfect http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY3awNjH8r8) and several posts here on HB, but all valves were quite clean inside (used very pure water or even RO water -- mea culpa I know, tisk tisk. But at least valves are clean).

I have also replaced every o-ring I could find, again thanks to YT (this helped a ton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNZcCEMr7Z4) and HB of course. This necessitated me removing the brew boiler almost entirely, so I could replace the o-ring on the bottom of the left side of the brew boiler. Doing so drained the brew boiler almost completely, perhaps adding to whatever air lock issue may be going on here if that's it at all. In any event, there is no more hissing (and even spirting/spraying) of water from any of the 0-ringed seals, so at least we have that going for us now. It does not appear the spirting/dampness inside caused circuitry/computer component/board failure, since the thing still fires up and heats up water almost all the way. Also fyi the machine is totally dried out now (has been for about 2 years now, sitting on a shelf.)

The Problem (1):
The machine won't get quite up to temperature -- or at least cannot sense being up to temp. The machine readout says anything between 180 degrees to 190 degrees in recent days. For a minute it read as high as 192 degrees. This appears to be a different issue than have been described and troubleshot in very helpful detail in other posts on HB and elsewhere. It does not seem to be a melted thermal fuse, because the brew boiler does make water hot (I've tested it after heating up as far as will go, turn off, don protective gear, and open a probe port to test with my own (thermapen from thermoworks) temperature probe for cooking, and the temperature is at about 203 degrees F in the steam boiler, and just a degree or two less in the brew boiler.) So doesn't it seem that the machine IS getting up to temp but it just can't quite detect that?

Another Likely Related Problem (2): Steam wand function doesn't work. But no, it doesn't drip. Steam wand usually doesn't work at all: it just clicks when I put on manual, seems to strain like it's trying hard, but barely anything comes out, if anything. Sometimes seems totally "blocked" whether or not it is a technical block I don't know, but kind of doubt (though not impossible!) since I did take much of this thing apart over the months. The hot water function DOES work however, despite the machine not ever getting to/reading at full temperature.

Most of the posts I've read here deal with post o-ring replacement air gaps/air locks etc, but ordinarily those machines can't get over 150 degrees F or so. Mine gets much higher, again to 180 or 190 degrees, depending on the day it seems to vary! I've read solutions like tipping the machine forward 45 degrees and then turning it on, or open the screw release valves a the front of the machine (one, then repeat process with other) while machine is on, forcing water and air to escape, then re-tightening (see here and here posts 27-29), or again, manually opening first steam boiler and then brew boiler from the top to add additional water into each, then buttoning back up and turning on (forgot where I learned this....anyway sometimes helped by a few degrees, other times not at all). None of the solutions on the forums that I've read quite extensively have gotten this thing working again -- yet!

I also learned from forum posts how to find out the error codes, and have recently gotten Error codes 18 and 23, which seemed to indicate "Steam boiler NTC not responding", which means something about the steam boiler NTC and/or steam element triac PCB issue; and "flow meter count error", meaning some coffee pump flow meter issue (Based off a .pdf I found here): https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/equipm ... codes-list That all sounds not fantastic to me, but not really sure where to start with that besides the Google, which led me to think I should try replacing the 3 steam boiler probes because I'm thinking the electrical components (PCB?) don't seem to be fried. This is all my blind mal-caffeinated guessing though.

So I went ahead and replaced the 3 steam boiler probes (purchased from a store in Australia here: https://outwestcoffee.com.au/index.php/ ... -included/), which seemed to help quite a bit (now got up to 190 degrees or so), but still not get me to brew temp. Note, these replacement probes have slightly different length dimensions than my original, maybe a few millimeters, and also slightly thinner thickness to the probe stick itself. Not sure if that matters.

Well that was an ear/eyeful! But I'm sure there are other details I'm not thinking of just yet, so I thank you all in advance for your patience and any assistance/advice/trouble shooting steps you'd advise. I'll update this post with more/better links/edits as requested so that the first post can be as useful as possible for others who may face similar issues down the road.

Again, thanks in advance!
Ryan B

Hi HB/Dan,

Thank you kindly for the reply. I appreciate any and all leads!

About the GFI tripping issue, that seems to have disappeared once I did the solenoid cleaning (which weren't very dirty after all), or more likely it was the replacing of all the o-rings, such that it wasn't hissing and spurting water (and I imagine creating electrical shorts).

I thought I was such a hero following the HB and YT tutorials for these 2 fixes, only to find that my fixes introduced this new main issue of the machine not getting up to temperature. And then about the same time, the steam wand totally stopped being able to push/release any steam (although the hot water function works fine, which everyone says is connected to the steam feature and normally go out at the same time -- go figure).

So for the moment we've got past the GFI business...or perhaps maybe I'm not even that far (!), since it often popped the GFI when I was pulling a shot...which I can't even do yet for lack of adequate temperature.

Again, I appreciate these leads since they may spark an idea for someone else with much more insight than me!
Many thanks,
Ryan

ryanb wrote:Hi HB/Dan,

Thank you kindly for the reply. I appreciate any and all leads!

About the GFI tripping issue, that seems to have disappeared once I did the solenoid cleaning (which weren't very dirty after all), or more likely it was the replacing of all the o-rings, such that it wasn't hissing and spurting water (and I imagine creating electrical shorts).

I thought I was such a hero following the HB and YT tutorials for these 2 fixes, only to find that my fixes introduced this new main issue of the machine not getting up to temperature. And then about the same time, the steam wand totally stopped being able to push/release any steam (although the hot water function works fine, which everyone says is connected to the steam feature and normally go out at the same time -- go figure).

So for the moment we've got past the GFI business...or perhaps maybe I'm not even that far (!), since it often popped the GFI when I was pulling a shot...which I can't even do yet for lack of adequate temperature.

Again, I appreciate these leads since they may spark an idea for someone else with much more insight than me!
Many thanks,
Ryan

Emphasis added

This is not the case with the BDB/Oracle. The hot water spigot is water from the brew boiler diverted to the spigot. In an HX machine, the water from the spigot is steam boiler water pushed out by steam head pressure.

No steam means your steam boiler is not heating. The most likely culprit is the thermal fuse. Not the only posibility, but easy enough to check(atleast on the BDB, not sure on the Oracle).

Hi lovemy40,

Thanks a lot for your response here!

So, per my original post, I definitely have opened the steam boiler when it stops heating after several minutes (turned off machine, use protective gear, open one of the top ports and take reading with thermapen) and the water tests at about 202 - 203 degrees. The brew boiler just a degree or 2 lower than that. So I think we've ruled out the steam boiler not heating or the thermal fuse issue.

Does that make sense/is it correct to assume the steam boiler is working on account of my temperature readings?
Thanks!
Ryan

Yes, it does make sense. When my thermal fuse blew, the steam boiler was cold to the touch after the machine warmed up.

Hey Folks,

Anybody with any Christmas miracle ideas to get this off the workbench and back into service? Or it this destined to become one of those white-flag "as-is" eBay listings?

If it helps/matters, yes I do believe in Santa.

Thanks!

At this point, I think I would consider sending to Breville for service. I don't know what the flat rate fee would be for the Oracle, but it's $400 for the BDB.

I do seem to recall another member having a similar problem and fixing it themselves. It might have been replacing the triacs, maybe. I just don't remember.

The displayed temperature seems to be calculated from the coffee boiler and electric group temp. So one possibility is your group is not heating. And that may be caused by a shorted triac causing it to overheat and trip the thermal fuse

Hi Uriah,

Thanks for your reply below. I appreciate your time thinking on this!

So, per original post, under Problem (1), both steam boiler and brew boiler are both heating, just not quite up to temp.

So, I don't know anything much about the triac, except seen that some have successfully replaced. But if mine were blown/shorted, would it be heating up as far as it does? I tend to think not, but I'm no expert.

This pretty much rules out the thermal fuse as being the culprit, otherwise as I understand it the brew boiler wouldn't be heating much if any at all, but of course it is nearly all the way.

Thanks again -- very open to other troubleshooting thoughts as well!
Ryan