2 Group Gaggia Tell Restoration - Page 3

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
OldNuc

#21: Post by OldNuc » May 08, 2019, 5:36 pm

Sounds like they are switching the center of the 380V "Y" with the pressurestat. That puts 220 on each element.

User avatar
homeburrero
Team HB

#22: Post by homeburrero » replying to OldNuc » May 08, 2019, 5:53 pm

Makes sense. I noticed that only one of the pStat's mercury switches is actually used (the other is wired with both wires connecting at the same screw.) And if only one wire from the power switch goes to the pStat that would be consistent with a 3 phase + neutral rig where the neutral wire is switched by the pStat before connecting to both elements, and then one of the L1,L2.L3 wires from the switch goes to one element and another one goes to the other element.

When rewiring for 220V split single I think he'll probably want to use both mercury switches.

P.S.
Anyone wanting an illustrative example of how the same elements can be hooked into split phase or into a 380V 3Phase plus neutral can check out the wiring diagrams for the Faema legend: /downloads/ ... Legend.pdf . Takes some squinting, but makes it clear that an element that works on L1 - N in a 380/415 3Phase + N system can be happy when fed by L1 - L2 in a 208/240V split single phase system.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

OldNuc

#23: Post by OldNuc » May 08, 2019, 7:09 pm

That machine is likely wired with just 2 phases of the 380V distribution system which has the 3 phases all connected at the center of the "Y". You end up with 220 to neutral and the neutral may or may not be referenced to ground. The conventional practice is that the neutral is connected to ground at the "Y" connected generator and throughout the distribution system as if the neutral opens for any reason the connected load may suddenly see 380v and no neutral. This distribution system is seldom utilized in the US for this reason. Europe has always preferred a 220 L and N at the residential level so this lets you have a 4 wire distribution system that can provide 220, 380 2 phase, and 380 3 phase. Allows powering light industry and residential without a large number of transformers.

Yes, must use both sections of the pressurestat as the US 240 split phase does not fare well with a grossly unbalanced neutral. It is possible to find a 1:1 transformer and configure the output side any way you want it so you have proper isolation. That also allows for proper EFCI operation easily.

The heating elements are rated for 220V @1250W and I suspect the one I cant see the rating on is also 1250W

User avatar
IamOiman

#24: Post by IamOiman » May 09, 2019, 2:02 pm

Taking Off the Panels in the Right Order
I will go over the panels now since I finally got off the stuck left panel in the order you should take them off for easiest acccess.
Image
1)The side panel (both of them)
This panel has two parts, one aluminum and one painted. For the side panel there are four chromed nuts that attach on the outside of the machine and are visible on this exterior. There is one bolt with a washer and security washer, and the nut itself is 10mm. Where the rear panel turns 90 degrees there is a u-shaped lip that attaches to the orange frame on the rear of the machine. You take off all the other nuts and pull this section out to take off the panel. You need to take off both side panels to properly accecss the rear panel nuts easily.
Image
2)The rear panel
The rear panel is comprised of three parts, one aluminum and two painted. With the side panels off there are three bolts on each side that connect to the painted panels. Starting on the bottom you take off two nuts to take off the lower painted panel. The upper two rows of bolts (four total) will allow you to take off the upper painted panel. Finally you jostle the remaining aluminum panel up then outward to fully dissassmble the rear panels.
Image
3)The cup holder and metal flaired parts pn top
When you remove the right side panel you can take off the cup holder tray by loosening the water connection between the cup holder heating element and the boiler. Taking off the cup holder will also allow you to take off the remaining exterior aluminum parts via a screwdriver and wrench. All bolts loosened during this process require a 10mm wrench.
Image
I have been looking at these parts and they are all in good-great condition. I feel this machine was neglected towards the end and a simple polishing will bring out the shine in all the parts. I already decided to keep the panels original, and am mulling over rechroming the groups if needed, but I will not decide until I dissassemble them and can closely observe them. Here is the bottom of the cup tray after some water and a rub!
Image
Image
When I took off the panels I cleaned the grooves by taking an empty paper towel roll and cutted strips. I ran the strips inside the u-shaped groove to get the gunk out.
Image
Image
-Ryan
I'll throw my portafilter in the ring
LMWDP #612

OldNuc

#25: Post by OldNuc » May 09, 2019, 2:16 pm

If you plan on preserving the original paint on the panels be real careful what you use to clean it up. Anything with ammonia will likely either severely soften it or even remove it.

User avatar
Jake_G
Team HB

#26: Post by Jake_G » May 09, 2019, 2:19 pm

Excellent write up and pictures.

This is going to be a fantastic archive thread!


Cheers!

- Jake

User avatar
IamOiman

#27: Post by IamOiman » May 10, 2019, 3:17 pm

I did not do much today. I started taking off one of the valves to take to a hardware store, but I ran into something much better. I got into contact with a parts distributor that has been a Gaggia representative since 1971 and has original parts no longer made. While I can get some parts custome made, these original parts are available to me for a decent price, so I created a list of all parts needed including gaskets and springs and sent them to the company. Hopefully I can get an estimate soon and pick them up!
Image
Image
Image
-Ryan
I'll throw my portafilter in the ring
LMWDP #612

User avatar
IamOiman

#28: Post by IamOiman » May 12, 2019, 8:10 am

I am putting the panels back on at this point and am prepping the machine for shipping, so I will not be updating as much during the transit and instead be focusing on the prep work beforehand so that when I receive the machine in the US I can get straight to dismantling and restoring.

The first question I have is for a restoration, what are the general tools required for me to adequately complete one? Things like wrenches, screwdrivers, bearing extractors, drills, grinders, vices, etc. I ask because there is almost no place in the US I can get tools of similar quality for cheaper. An example is today when I went to the Agnano market and snagged various wrenches and adjustable wrench for ~18 euro new or like new. If I can purchase the tools I do not have here I could save some funds used towards parts purchasing.

Image
Image
Image
-Ryan
I'll throw my portafilter in the ring
LMWDP #612

OldNuc

#29: Post by OldNuc » May 12, 2019, 9:31 am

For any fitting that is brass or copper or plated with chrome or nickle you should only use either tubing wrenches or six point box end wrenches. These are rather pricey in metric sizes here. You will also need a set in imperial(inch) sizes as these machines have a strange mix of various standards. Most of the other generic tools can be found at low cost at Harbor Freight or what ever you see that looks good. Good 6 - 8 inch bench vices require a bench to bolt them down to but they are almost indispensable. A set of 3/8 drive metric 6 point sockets are real nice to have in standard depth and deep sockets.

User avatar
IamOiman

#30: Post by IamOiman » May 15, 2019, 9:05 am

OldNuc wrote:A set of 3/8 drive metric 6 point sockets are real nice to have in standard depth and deep sockets.
I'll keep that in mind. I did a search and there is a Harbor Freight in Fall River MA about 15 minutes from where I will be, so that's good to know.

I worked on small stuff in the meanwhile. I took off the lever handles in prep for shipment, but I had to completely take off the lever cam as the lever itself would not unscrew with multiple days of PB soaking and a 10 inch pipe wrench (my last desperation measure) on where the plastic handles would lie to hide any potential marks made. I did find out the handles are stainless steel when the teeth of the wrench dug in a bit and did not chip off like chrome would.
Image
Image
Image
OH GAWD THE GRIME. I'll scrape that off in a while with a toothpick
Image

I also checked out the portafilters and their cool spouts. The handles are and hold the bakelite handles snugly. These are more likely to be rechromed with the steam arms when I get to that point. They also need a serious cleaning.
Image
-Ryan
I'll throw my portafilter in the ring
LMWDP #612