Over-moderating Weber Key threads

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fagotti

#1: Post by fagotti »

Having ordered a Key grinder on IGG, I have been following the HB Weber threads for quite some time now. The moderators closed the thread twice after the Sprometheus's video and customer complaints. Even though I am not directly involved in the drama, I got a bit frustrated with the moderation, so I wish to discuss the over-moderation by HB in this regard.

For the discussion caused by Sprometheus's second video, indeed some of the posts are not meaningful and does not contribute to the discussion, however closing the entire thread may not be the best option. There were some useful information and experiments on the thread, such as #1014. Comparing the production rate to Monolith's is also worth discussion, especially when it is not a user experience thread. I question the decision to closing the thread for 1-2 days, let alone closing it permanently forever. A reminder or warning would have been sufficient to guide the discussion back on track. Moderators should expect dramas like this to happen on a popular thread, while it might have gotten slightly overboard, closing it may not be the best option.

For the discussion on the customer experience, I also do not quite understand the decision to close the thread for the entire weekend. User experiences should include customer services, as it's not just about the grinder itself. Discussion on what one expects from Weber customer service is mostly logical. Indeed there are one or two posts that require some moderation, but closing the thread for the entire weekend does not really help. Furthermore, as we have all paid thousands on an expensive grinder, we all have high expectations on the aesthetics as well. Since everyone has different tolerance on the appearance, this is also worth discussion. Again, a reminder to bring the discussion on track would have been sufficient should the moderators think the discussion is inappropriate.

To sum up, a gentle reminder would have been sufficient in both cases. I don't think closing the thread before any reminder would help the discussion.

PIXIllate
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#2: Post by PIXIllate »

You have 2 posts here. It's rather bold to be making such proclamations about what is and isn't right for a site that by anyone's standards has done a tremendous amount to promote productive discussion surrounding coffee and its preparation for over 15 years.

Dan is to be congratulated for walking a fine and sometime difficult line between discussion and piling-on style complaining. There's always the rest of the entire internet to serve that purpose.
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fagotti (original poster)

#3: Post by fagotti (original poster) »

I don't think the number of posts changes my right to discuss the issue. I have been following HB for some time, but only created this account because I wish to join the discussion on the Weber Key Grinder.


I agree it is difficult to draw a line between what's appropriate or not in a thread, and I am not here to question Dan's effort. The moderators or users might not agree on opinion which is perfectly fine, but I think an open discussion between users on closing threads would help the site.

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Spitz.me

#4: Post by Spitz.me »

Attacked? Way to continue the productive discussion you tried to start because you feel victimized by site moderating.
LMWDP #670

fagotti (original poster)

#5: Post by fagotti (original poster) »

I have taken some thought and agree it was a poor choice of word. Therefore I hereby apologise and have edited the reply. It would be good to focus back on the issue I have realised on whether closing the thread is the best way to guide discussion back on track.

Also I was not involved nor was a victim in the moderation. I wanted to discuss on the grinder but unfortunately the two threads were closed.

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HB
Admin

#6: Post by HB »

fagotti wrote:For the discussion on the customer experience, I also do not quite understand the decision to close the thread for the entire weekend.
Actually, the "cooldown" thread functionality in its current implementation blocks posting for 16 hours. For the next 32 hours, it allows a poster to post to that thread no more than once every 6 hours. After many years of moderating, I believe this works out to be a reasonable "brake" on a discussion that has every indication of getting overheated. The other advantage of this approach is it takes the burden off moderators to micro-manage discussion. I was a moderator on another forum for ~5 years and that was one of the main reasons I quit, i.e., I was spending too much of my evenings explaining and re-explaining board rules to irate posters.
Dan Kehn
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fagotti (original poster)

#7: Post by fagotti (original poster) »

Thanks for the clarification (and changing the title. I am not a native speaker so my choice of words might not be appropriate).

That's actually a very good clarification explaining the moderator's point of view. Now that I understand the reason why cool-down was the first option chosen, I'm not completely opposed to the idea of closing threads for a short period of time. I mean I still think a short reminder (Eg. It's better to bring it back to the user discussion instead of customer service discussion which is banned from the forum) would have been best if the moderators have time and energy to do that, but the decision is probably better than I initially thought.

Thank you once again for the clarification.

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HB
Admin

#8: Post by HB »

fagotti wrote:I mean I still think a short reminder... would have been best...
From my experience, for a heated exchange, a moderator's reminder to get back on topic is often ignored. That's why I post a reminder and then put the thread on cooldown. That makes it really hard for a contributor to just blow by the reminder and later say "Sorry! I didn't see your reminder on the prior page." :lol:
fagotti wrote:It's better to bring it back to the user discussion instead of customer service discussion which is banned from the forum....
They're not banned. The site's Guidelines for productive online discussion says "Please use these forums only as a last resort for complaining about vendors." Another note from the Guidelines: "Dogmatic or repetitive replies are rarely welcome." The latter is what usually triggers a cooldown, e.g., a small group of contributors restating their grievance / counter-grievance in ever-finer detail. A cooldown affords them a pause and they come back to the discussion with a clearer mind.
Dan Kehn

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JB90068
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#9: Post by JB90068 »

PIXIllate wrote:Dan is to be congratulated for walking a fine and sometime difficult line between discussion and piling-on style complaining. There's always the rest of the entire internet to serve that purpose.
Well said. Dan stands out as a voice of reason and I applaud him for his moderation in moderating. The high level of civil discussion and the ability (when needed) to agree to disagree amongst members is one of the many attributes that makes this forum so enjoyable. Thank you Dan.
Old baristas never die. They just become over extracted.

ira
Team HB

#10: Post by ira »

Funny you should complain about over moderation, this is IMHO, possibly the best moderated community I've ever been a part of. It's also almost always a polite community and the moderation keeps it that way. And always remember, it's Dan's house and he sets the rules.

Ira