Noise is making useful data hard(er) to find

#1: Post by **AssafL** » May 15th, 2019, 4:03 pm

I have no problem weeding the noisy bits. This is a hobby so even reading stuff naively is fun and a drawer full of coffee dosers/scrapers/brushes which don't really work or don't fit the zeitgeist.

But at some point the noise may make the useful data hard to find. The strive to understand grinder A vs grinder B's performance (or at least characterize it) is great. But much of the advice these days seems to be gear related.

Want an espresso in the morning: grinder A is the best.
But want an medium roast Guatemala in the morning but a French press in the afternoon? You need 5 grinders.

There used to be discussions related to progressions. Incremental understanding in improving the coffee or the process of making coffee. In taste, in coffees, in budgets. H-B was about incremental improvements

Now it is becoming more about excesses. That is the source of the noise. Lots of gear out there - and while I think the "use-upgrade - return" is good for manufacturers - it doesn't help drive the understanding forward.

And you have to wade through endless "Batch 23 - conical 68mm - anyone snag one?" Threads.

Jim - this isn't targeted at you. Your new topic about the differences between grinders is spot on what's H-B used to be about (I still think it is EY). It can still be found - And probably would right up to when the September 2019 batch comes around. Maybe with a matching salt and pepper shaker?

Perchance grinders should be split up to sub groups. General grinder talk about the useful stuff we can use. And then the VL/Kafatek/Mazzer/Caedo under separate forums. Oh - and a special boondocks one for those who think 5 grinders are needed for espresso.

Audiocircle did this with Audio and it worked nicely.

...split from Vendor participation in the forums. What about their friends, insiders, promoters, and influencers? by moderator...

#2: Post by **another_jim** » May 15th, 2019, 4:12 pm

600 posts about a due date is ridiculous, even for babies, never mind grinders; unfortunately, I think that's us to blame, not vendors or anyone else.

#3: Post by **ira** » May 16th, 2019, 1:33 pm

Spitz.me wrote:I agree with the idea of having manufacturer sub forums. I imagine I'm not the only one that is really interested to see topics that are specific to the machines I have.

There was a time not that long ago when I read every message posted to the board, now it's probably only 5% or 10%. Some days I'm gone for a few hours and there are notifications for unread messages on page 3. What you suggest only make sense to me if there is a way to mark the forum topics I want to see in my list of "Unread Messages." If that still shows all the messages in all the forums, you've just made it all messier. Unless you like to wander the forum only looking at some forum topics, but that's so painfully slow. If I could only say, please never show me the "Niche Zero" thread again. Not that it's not an important product, but all the questions have already been answered and now it's just noise, heck, today it's a thread about Baratza.

I've said this before, but without some way to limit growth and filter all the first post saying stupid things or asking the same question the hundredth time, it will soon just be another CG and then one of us will have to go start ReallySeriousExpresso.com for the people like Jim and AssafL who are still on the quest for better espresso and not wondering if a Hario Slim and a ROC espresso machine are good enough to make god shots.

I wish I knew how to solve the problem, but about the only way is turn on moderated posts for all new members until the prove worthy and that is a burden on the moderators of unimaginable weight. Or maybe just disallow posting for 6 months after registration.

But something has to change or all the good people will leave, that's how this always goes.

Ira

May 16th, 2019, 2:24 pm

Ok, call me a novice, but pages of unread messages? We can browse the site by unread posts specifically?

I'm aware that not everyone uses the forums the way I do, but I have a really hard time believing that everyone is really interested in seeing all posts within a general topic, like grinders. In many cases, there are topic headers that are super generic, but they're inevitably specific to a piece of equipment and in many cases there's a specific method to help with the piece of gear. Experts, vendors or people with experience using those machines are more likely to be active if they can more readily focus on posts that they can help with. I think most users are looking for gear specific help and if you're not in the 1% of forum users that can be helpful in almost all cases then it's noise. Forums are full of noise, that'll never end. That's life.

I really like the idea of having an option to never see discussion on certain topics. lol

I'm tired of the "I'm unique, but here's a super obvious list of equipment I need recommendations on with similarly obvious answers." threads.

I think manufacturer specific forums help you with directing your focus and I'd appreciate that. We have a forum on COFFEES for C____ Sake. Come on... Maybe drip coffee or Espresso coffee? Why not? The forum is just littered with stuff I almost never read unless it's in the latest topics list. There's no focus. Coffee, sorry, is not a focus it's way too broad.

#5: Post by **ira** » May 16th, 2019, 3:09 pm

Spitz.me wrote:Ok, call me a novice, but pages of unread messages? We can browse the site by unread posts specifically?

Upper left corner, pick "Menu" and then Unread messages. Don't feel bad, took me 8 years to find it.

Ira

May 20th, 2019, 4:20 am

And with the kind help of egalitarian lottery method: Here is another "waiting for godot" thread to keep us entertained as Vladimir and Estragon contemplate the appropriate color schemes for their grinder win. Or cogitate over the philosophical consequences of having the screws veering off a full mm to the right. Existentialism in screws-ness!

Monolith Flat MAX - Sept-Oct '19 Production Run

(Again - I have no issue with anodization colors. I like brushed aluminum just like everyone else - Just that it should be in a separate location where non-owners are not subject to the whimsy).

#7: Post by **civ** » May 20th, 2019, 8:01 am

Hello:

ira wrote: ... asking the same question the hundredth time, it will soon just be another CG ...

Hopefully the gods will protect us from such fate.

ira wrote: ... or all the good people will leave, that's how this always goes.

Indeed ...

Cheers,

CIV

#8: Post by **ira** » May 20th, 2019, 1:13 pm

civ wrote:Hopefully the gods will protect us from such fate.

CIV

I would hope also, but I've be reading those kinds of posts recently and the number of what I would consider inane posts from first time posters is approaching multiple per day. I thought about saving the links to them for a few days and posting the list just to prove my point, but I'm afraid if Dan does not take some serious response to it, this forum will be a dismal shell of what it was within the year.

Ira

#9: Post by **civ** » May 20th, 2019, 1:34 pm

Hello:

ira wrote: ... reading those kinds of posts recently and the number of what I would consider inane posts ...

Yes, I've noticed them too.
Its certainly not the same HB I logged in for the very first time practically 12 years ago (30/05/2007)

A lot of coffee has been ground and espresso poured out of our portafilters since.

Much to my chagrin, the only certainty we have in the universe/life is the inevitability of change.
We will not escape it and neither will HB.

ira wrote: ... if Dan does not take some serious response to it ...

Well ...
It is Dan's baby, we're just part of the extended family, if you will.
I have trust in that he'll know how or alternatively, find a way to deal with all this.

Cheers,

CIV

#10: Post by **Moka 1 Cup** » May 20th, 2019, 2:27 pm

Spitz.me wrote: I'm tired of the "I'm unique, but here's a super obvious list of equipment I need recommendations on with similarly obvious answers." threads.

This would be probably solved with a sub forum dedicated to less experienced people (like me ), or where anybody can ask very simple questions that require simple answers. A place where you can ask any kind of "stupid" technical question related to this hobby without feeling that you are spoiling the other specific forums. Something like "newbies asking for advice, and quick questions".
More experienced members could just decide if totally ignoring that sub forum or instead giving their two cents.

(all my 19 threads could be easily and rightly moved there

)