BIANCA: Order this game changer home espresso machine... - Page 2

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#11: Post by 1st-line »

another_jim wrote:This looks like a big deal The Hydra, Slayer and LM variable pressure machines are hand built commercial machines costing about three times as much; the Decent is a hobbyist machine with all the attendant uncertainties and TLC requirements. Lelit is a mainline home machine manufacturer.

I'm not quite enamored by the look of the brew control paddle (it may look better in person than on the pics); but to see one on a home machine at this price point is pretty amazing. Jim has scored the coup; but after it starts selling out, you'll probably be seeing competing versions from WLL and Chris as well.
Paddle looks better in person and has a great feel! And, we got plenty ordered....
Jim Piccinich
www.1st-line.com
1st-line Equipment, LLC

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#12: Post by 1st-line »

paulraphael wrote:The pump is a rotary pump, not a gear pump. Lelit says the preinfusion programming allows you to program how long the pump is on, and then the time the pump pauses before final infusion starts. I've read speculation (not confirmed by Lelit) that during preinfusion, the pump pulses, to keep the average flow rate lower than normal.

-This programable preinfusion can be turned off entirely. You have the option of using no preinfusion, or doing it manually with the paddle, Slayer-style.

-The paddle operates a needle valve, and gives continuous flow-control from full blast to zero. Technically speaking, as discussed in this thread My long and rambling path to preinfusion/pressure profiling, the machine is flow-profiling rather than pressure-profiling. After the brew head is pressurized, the difference is somewhat academic, but during preinfusion the difference is significant. The flow-profiling approach should allow a very long, slow preinfusion and a corresponding extra-fine grind, to accommodate light-roasted single-origin beans.

-Boilers are stainless and pipes are copper. Lelit's literature says the steam boiler is 1.5L, the brew boiler 800ml, each with a 1400W heating element. Possibly the 120 volt version will draw less juice. In either voltage, the electronics would have to keep both boilers from firing on full at the same time.

-Other features ... shot clock, steam boiler shutoff, programable "standby times" [is this wake/sleep?], PID settings for brew and steam, total and partial dose counters [no idea what this is].

I'm inhaling information about this machine because it's almost exactly what I've been looking for. The design principles of the Slayer appeal to me, but the price doesn't. And it's seemed all along that the Slayer's defining feature (manually controlled slow preinfusion) is separate from what makes it expensive (handmade, high-end, boutique everything). So I was hoping someone would catch on and make a machine for commoners with a similar super power.
Rotary pump is confirmed, and we actually like this less noisy, hum pump better than the high pitch of the magnetic gear pump. With programmable pre-infusion (both water and soak time) turned off, the paddle can be used for pre-infusion. It seems the electrical current alternates between boilers like most machines. I have not yet determined priority, and I am unsure if the incoming coffee boiler water is preheated from the steam boiler.

The standby times is more for energy savings. You can have the machine turn off in set intervals, 30 minutes, 60 minutes, and so on.

Last weekend, a rep from Slayer stopped by our booth and looked at all of our machines. He explained on the Slayers, the paddle in the middle position opens the adjustable flow valve (valve manually set inside machine), and when the paddle is brought all the way to the left, the solenoid valve is opened for full open pressure. 1st-line does sell Slayer, and we do admit they also do a great job at making espresso.
Jim Piccinich
www.1st-line.com
1st-line Equipment, LLC

paulraphael

#13: Post by paulraphael »

1st-line wrote:1st-line does sell Slayer, and we do admit they also do a great job at making espresso.
I don't think anyone's shocked by that admission :)

Can you comment more on the standby function? Can the machine be set to power on and off at set times? Is there a low-power standby mode or does the machine shut all the way off?

Do you know if the 1400 watt boiler ratings apply to the 120v model?

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#14: Post by 1st-line » replying to paulraphael »

The standby function is for power off the machine after 30, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 240, 300, 360, 420, 480, or 540 minutes of no usage. Or you can turn this feature off completely. I do not see a built in timer. I will not mention any brands, but I have seen some machines with timers that have experienced issues. If you decide to put any machine with a outlet type timer, PLEASE put a surge suppressor after it - 1080 joules or higher.

As for the heating elements, I would have to find out. I am not in a position to start taking the prototype machine apart.
Jim Piccinich
www.1st-line.com
1st-line Equipment, LLC

lagoon

#15: Post by lagoon »

This is genuinely interesting. Very significant modifications to the E61.

Are there any other examples of machines using a "'frankenstein" E61 group beyond very minor tweaks? I can't recall any.

Nunas
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#16: Post by Nunas »

Rotary pump is confirmed
Uh...by 'rotary' do you mean a vane pump? In the industrial world, there are a few different pumps called rotary pumps...sorry, don't know the espresso machine terminology as well as I should :oops: .

HoldTheOnions

#17: Post by HoldTheOnions »

I'm loving the tank. Wish mine was like that.

paulraphael

#18: Post by paulraphael »

Nunas wrote:Uh...by 'rotary' do you mean a vane pump? In the industrial world, there are a few different pumps called rotary pumps...sorry, don't know the espresso machine terminology as well as I should :oops: .
Yeah, a vane pump. I don't think espresso machines generally use other kinds of rotary pumps.

It's worth noticing because because most machines that electronically control pressure (as this one does for the programable preinfusion) will use a gear pump, which allows flow rate control by changing pump speed. But these pumps are expensive; I don't think we ever see them on machines in this price range. The Bianca uses a vane pump and completely different approach.

paulraphael

#19: Post by paulraphael »

1st-line wrote:I am not in a position to start taking the prototype machine apart.
It would seem you're in a better position than anyone ... 8)

Tonefish

#20: Post by Tonefish »

paulraphael wrote: ... it's almost exactly what I've been looking for. The design principles of the Slayer appeal to me, but the price doesn't. And it's seemed all along that the Slayer's defining feature (manually controlled slow preinfusion) is separate from what makes it expensive (handmade, high-end, boutique everything). So I was hoping someone would catch on and make a machine for commoners with a similar super power.
Me too! Thanks for the info!
LMWDP #581 .......... May your roasts, grinds, and pulls be the best!