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#451: Post by TDK »

Jonk wrote:The chrome looks better in my opinion.

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Randy G.

#452: Post by Randy G. »

The design looks stable front to back, but what keeps it in place laterally? Will the "feet" be coated to protect the Decent finish? I like that it can be easily removed.
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decent_espresso (original poster)

#453: Post by decent_espresso (original poster) »

New from Decent : the Espresso Tap 1

We're super excited to launch our new flagship model: the Decent Espresso Tap 1. Shipping in two weeks! Hopefully, maybe!

We learned from our customers that that they value speed, silent working and ease of use, far more than quality, and we've listened!

The DETAP1 delivers espresso on tap. Our DETAP1 model come with a 3 liter container of the highest quality premade espresso, from 50% arabica dark roasted-in-Italy beans.

"This by far the simplest, most reliable, fastest-to-warmup model that we could imagine" said Decent cofounder John Buckman. "By removing all sources of operator error, such as beans, grinding, extraction, freshness, water, or skill, we are able to deliver you 100% perfectly consistent espresso" he added, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The DE1TAP1 features a patented SureToLockYouIn™ DRM locking coffee seal, so that only certified premade-by-Decent-Espresso coffee can be used. For your protection (and those of your children) it cannot be refilled by you.

The best part? The DE1TAP1 comes with a 2 year premade coffee subscription, and refills can only be purchased online from our web site. A Wifi connection is required so that each drink can be digitally certified coming from us.

With this innovation, we were able to take your morning coffee experience to the next level by removing all margins of human or machine error: no tablet, no water tank, no grinder and no electricity needed. Just plug in your SureToLockYouIn™ premade espresso tank, and dispense as needed.

Only the finest coffee (and coffee-like flavors) is used.

INGREDIENTS: Colombian brewed coffee (filtered water, coffee), sugar, maltodextrin, chicory root fiber, cellulose gel, cocoa (processed with alkali), sodium hydroxide, natural and artificial flavor, cellulose gum, caffeine anhydrous, carrageenan, ascorbic acid, vitamin E dl alpha tocopheryl, vitamin A palmitate.

It's gluten free!

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#454: Post by redbone »

Smells like an espresso on April 1st.
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.

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#455: Post by threesips »

"said Decent cofounder John Buckman...speaking on condition of anonymity."
The perfect touch.


#456: Post by rcrutcher »

I think that the black rails look better than the chrome on the black machine, and I just ordered the DE1PRO yesterday!

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decent_espresso (original poster)

#457: Post by decent_espresso (original poster) »

Auctor wrote:I think Decent will continue to have an entry level machine. I personally wished that it were closer to $2k vs $3k, because then it would've been a no-brainer and I would've bought it vs. my Sync or the Bianca, but what happened this Spring (with Decent temporarily killing their entry level machine) is similar to Tesla's approach to fulfilling the high end orders and delaying entry level purchases. The $3k machine is still their entry point, and I think it's here to stay.

Unless they suddenly discover a few more *big* features, it feels like they're in refinement mode, which hopefully stops the price creep. My hope is that they bring the luxury chassis to a $5k-$7k price point, and keep the $3k machine what it is - a way to get into the Decent family with all of the espresso machinations without the bells and whistles.
This is all absolutely bang-on, correct.

We are very much in refinement mode now. Our next (September) version (v1.43) only features 1 change, and that's a tablet stand that slides in to lock, instead of requiring screws. No other change. v1.44 is planned to simplify some of the internal water routing, but this will have no user-facing consequences.

All the innovation now is going into the software side, both in the tablet app and firmware. It's free, and works on all models, going back to v1.0.

I want to keep our entry level machine around $3k, and our top end of this v1.4 design, around $4500. We'll eventually have a luxury model, that will be in the price range you describe. Depending on how R&D goes, maybe that'll be 2022, or 2023, but it won't be called a DE1.

There aren't currently any plans for a v1.5 DE1 model : our v1.4 model is something we're quite happy with, and simply refining/iterating on it now.

My intention is to have the same firmware and tablet software running on all our machines, and all models will make the exact same quality coffee.

In an ideal world, we'd have a $2000 model, but we can't make that machine profitably. If we grew to a massive company, and started to have economies of scale: perhaps we could. We'd also have to sacrifice on parts quality. However, that would also morph us unto a very different company and audience, much less focussed on the specialty crowd (where my heart is).

As far as price creep goes: I can't promise the price won't go up, and that's due to supply and demand. We're signing a lease on a 5th factory/warehouse space this month, and we just hired another 4 engineers this week. We're up to 18,000 sq feet now of factory and warehouse space. I think we can get to 500 machines/month with this setup, in a year. Bugs and I are not at all sure we want to get bigger than this. We don't want to outsource the manufacturing, as we want to keep quality high, and keep our connection to the object (it's built right in front of us, not far away).

If 500 machines/month is not enough supply to keep up with demand, and we don't want to get even bigger, then we have two choices: limit supply by selling out (like Kafatek does, and to some extent, Niche too) or increase the price. There's a 3rd option: sell the company and let someone else deal with it, but I really don't like that solution, as I want to feel good about Decent for a long time. I've sold 2 of my companies in the past, and neither has prospered long with the new owners, so that's not a path I want to take with Decent, which I see as the last great contribution in my career.

Like Kafatek, I have no desire to become a mass consumer product. I prefer to make something for a smaller, specialist audience. Have a direct connection to our customers, and enough profit margin to focus on their needs, continue R&D, and enough $ to make decisions toward quality. Going mass market would mean stopping innovation, simplifying the product, and cheaper internals.

As an aside, two gigantic consumer electronic companies approached us in the past year, to make a mass-market version of the Decent, and we've turned them both down. What we're doing right now is working for us, and for our audience, and I don't want to change that.

As to rumors/hopes that the classic Italian companies will license our tech and start to incorporate it into their classic models: I really doubt it. Other than Nestle's R&D dept buying a machine (they didn't try to hide it, I have no grudge against them for it), none of the classic companies have shown any interest in what we're doing. I think we're seen as a Silicon Valley Gadget to them, and well... that's fine by me.
Randy G. wrote:They have been kicking about a plan/design/consideration for a fully automatic machine.
Some people have tinkered with roboticizing their DE1, and that's very much something I want to support. This year we'll release a USB dongle, and some have already directly wired their robotics projects into the serial port in the back of the DE1 (the protocol is documented). A hard-wired connection to the Decent is a requirement for reliability with robots.

However, I don't foresee Decent ever going into the full automated world, for a very basic reason:

1 - In designing the Decent, we asked ourselves "what should be build, given that we're starting with a blank slate, and want to make the best coffee"

2 - If we were designing a fully automatic, the question would be "what can we build, given that the machine has to do everything in the coffee process?"

Question #2 is fundamentally about limits.

"How good can I make it, given that it has to be fully automatic?"

Firstly: that requires a very different skill set.

Secondly: that's not what draws me to espresso. I want to push forward the field of good drinks, not make drink quality compromises in the name of automation.

I would *love* to see the open architecture of the Decent cause "Decent robot cafés" to open, but if it happens, this'll be something that others do with the Decent, not directly from us.


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decent_espresso (original poster)

#458: Post by decent_espresso (original poster) »

Locking the tablet?

We're putting the finishing touches on a new Android tablet stand for the Decent, and I'd like your feedback about something. This tablet stand will start to appear in October 2021.

The current stand has 3 screws to lock it on, and the stands sits on top of the DE1. It's a simple, secure setup, but it does require a screwdriver to assemble, and is thus not as fast to disassessemble. For people who move their Decent a lot, the 3 screws are a bit of a hassle.

The new tablet stand slides into a slot directly under the top cover, which has been cut into the chassis. We've designed a spring that guides the stand into the right centered location. A slot in the stand allows the spring to click into the final position.

The locking spring has four mount mounts, which prevents the stand from bouncing as the tablet is tapped.

To remove the tablet, you slide it out, toward you.

FEEDBACK WANTED: in the current tablet stand design, the tablet can be removed at any time. It cannot be locked. In a cafe, or other public situation, would this be a worry? It's not obvious that the tablet can be removed. We're thinking about designing a variation on the locking spring, which makes tablet removal impossible, without taking the main cover off (it's held in place with 8x Torx T10 screws).

Here is the locking mechanism we're contemplating.

What do you think? Is having a tablet "walk away" a real concern for you, if it's not obviously stealable? I'm trying to gauge whether we're "going overboard" here and overthinking things.

About backward compatibility: unfortunately, this stand design cannot be retrofit onto earlier DE1 model, as the earlier metal chassis lack the cuts needed to allow the stand to slide in.


#459: Post by luckydragon »

Hi John, will the tablet still be permanently affixed to the stand?

Have you considered adding a hinge so the stand could be folded flat, which could possibly remove (or minimize) the need for removal for the purposes of transport?


#460: Post by GDK » replying to luckydragon »

The other benefit with this solution is that the machine will fit under more kitchen cabinets. If I was to buy the XL version, I have to remove the stand as my space is short by 1 cm or so, and likely make custom stand that is a bit more slanted. Of course, this will also require tightening/locking mechanism to prevent folding when pushing buttons on screen. This will add to the cost for sure.