decent_espresso wrote:Let's just say that I'm am exacting perfectionist, and I think I can make that group head just a little bit better.

The mould to make a stainless steel group head will cost around USD$10,000, and the design will then be permanently with us.

Because mould are so expensive, I think it's a good idea for us to finalize the design of each moulded part to be just as great as possible, because I'll never again have the same opportunity. If we later see small improvements that are possible, it's unlikely the improvements will be worth a $10,000 new mould cost.

Will you be able to 3D print to better visualize the options?

I've been wondering about this for a while too. They can make jet engine parts with 3d printing, so why not prototype parts for the DE?

I also like the profile of the DE and with the Group cover the same colour as the main body of the machine. The light, brushed metal looks odd to me whereas the original images with black group cover looked good. But not the majority view here unfortunately.

While I understand why the group head is the size it is, my overall desire is to see it be as compact as possible. The previous plastic look was a wee bit too NCC-1701 to my liking.

wachuko wrote:Will you be able to 3D print to better visualize the options?

Yes.

GAC wrote:I've been wondering about this for a while too. They can make jet engine parts with 3d printing, so why not prototype parts for the DE? I also like the profile of the DE and with the Group cover the same colour as the main body of the machine. The light, brushed metal looks odd to me whereas the original images with black group cover looked good. But not the majority view here unfortunately.

The process with metal objects is called CNC and is to take a piece of metal and use a computer controlled drill bit to remove all the material. The larger the object, the more expensive it is.

Our recent knockbox prototype cost about USD$300 to CNC. The group head cover will be a similar cost. It's worth it, though, to see the final product in action, in a similar material. They can CNC aluminum, but stainless steel is too hard to drill out. We might be able to chrome plate the final aluminum CNCed version to see what it's like shiny as well as matte.

decent_espresso wrote:...The process with metal objects is called CNC and is to take a piece of metal and use a computer controlled drill bit to remove all the material. The larger the object, the more expensive...

He was talking about this kind of metal 3D printing. Uses laser against a metal powder. I saw a few prototype parts you had printed in PLA or ABS, and wondered if you were doing the same just to have a better 3D visualization.

bachampion wrote:Can you let me know what the distance is between the bottom of the drip tray and the counter top is?

Sure thing, here's a photo, and it's 4.5cm.

decent_espresso wrote:Sure thing, here's a photo, and it's 4.5cm.

Cheers,

From memory the descent scale is 30mm high, so could it fit under the drip tray? I'm still trying to think of a way to weight the shots without putting exposing the scale to water or steam.

File this under the WHY JOHN SPENDS SO MUCH TIME ON HOME BARISTA category, I had a "holy cow" moment this morning where I put a 3D mockup of our upcoming Decent Scale under the drip tray, rather than on top of it. This was a suggestion made last week on HB (apologies, I forget who came up with it), and I realized that this is so much more logical than putting the scale on top of the drip tray cover.

With the scale on top, you lose a lot of espresso cup height, and you also have to worry about water getting into the scale, and it's another thing to clean up. A usb micro charger cable isn't really possible in this configuration.

Under the drip tray, it's out of the way, you don't lose any cup height, and there is no cleanup to worry about. Plus, you can plug the usb power into the scale in a way that isn't even visible.

And, totally by accident, my design of putting the LEDs and buttons vertically, makes this idea possible. This wouldn't work with most other scales, since they all face upwards.

To see if this would work, I put the maximum amount of water into the drip tray, I picked the heaviest mug (IKEA) I have and i put 100ml of water (a lungo espresso shot). Good news: we're still 200g short of the 2000g capacity of our scale, so this should work.

I'll need to make sure that our scale has enough clearance that it doesn't touch the espresso machine when it's on the scale, but otherwise this idea should be straightforward. Since we haven't finalized the ceramic drip tray mould, now is the time to nail this idea down.

On the DE1+ I can make the tablet software tare the scale automatically when you tell it to start making an espresso, and then "gravimetric" automatic shot-off becomes really easy to code.

Thats perfect, (it was me last week). I really wanted this feature as I don't like having to move the scale around all the time when making shots. I was thinking about a stand for the coffee machine that would raise it up enough to get the scale underneath, but noticed there was quite the gap there already. Sounds like all you need to do now is make a stand the the scale or change the drip tray and make sure there is nothing interacting with the drip tray (flushing line or the body of the machine itself).

Love the scale under the drip tray! John, you've been on a roll lately with the design updates!!