decent_espresso wrote:With a coarse grind of a light roast, we're seeing pressure drop hugely, from 9 bar to 2 bar, over 25 seconds, in order for the DE1+ to maintain a constant flow rate.

At a fast (2.5) flow rate, the drop in pressure has been greatest. Roll back to 2.2 ml/s and we're seeing 9->4 bar. Slow down to 1.8 ml/s and it's more like 9->7 bar. Always with a ~27s shot.

This is only my experience so far on tour of France and at Budapest with Scott, always at 3rd wave coffee shops where the roasts are light.

If one doesn't have flow profiling, but one has pressure profiling, then a sharply decreasing pressure profile and a coarse grind, would make good coffee.

Finer grinding, but still light roasts, made less tasty coffee (and 32s to 42s shot durations) and much less steep pressure curves during flow profiling.

Are you keeping the flow constant throughout the entire shot or have you played with changing the flow at various points within the shot?

At the moment, I'm doing:

- preinfusion at 4ml/s until 4 bar is reached (about 8 secs)
- constant flow at 2.5, 2.2 or 1.8 ml/s, to test different rates.

I'm not doing declining flow because, for light roasts, that seems to mute the brightness too much. It might be really nice for chocolatey roasts, though.

decent_espresso wrote: If one doesn't have flow profiling, but one has pressure profiling, then a sharply decreasing pressure profile and a coarse grind, would make good coffee.

That would be cool for DE1 owners...

I need to roast light to try this profile. I've had good light roasts running a slayer Profile.

Now have to try the inverse.

John, would be possible to have "current" shipping for pre-release DE1+? The date has been moved so many times that I am no longer sure when to expect the machine, I understand that it all depends on how things go with initial few test machines, etc, it's just nice to have a target date even if it is moving.

The site says October 1 is that accurate?

ikir wrote: The site says October 1 is that accurate?

I put a deposit down on a DE1+ a while back - let's just say, "before the redesign phase started." On a PM level I tried to talk John into taking the machine where it was at that point. He wouldn't budge.

I'm completely awestruck by the process, the design improvements, and now the collaboration with industry experts that has happened since then.

I'll be doing back-flips for joy to get this baby before Christmas, but I'm not the one to answer your valid question.

ikir wrote:John, would be possible to have "current" shipping for pre-release DE1+? The date has been moved so many times that I am no longer sure when to expect the machine, I understand that it all depends on how things go with initial few test machines, etc, it's just nice to have a target date even if it is moving. The site says October 1 is that accurate?

The only way I could give you a machine would be if you were ok with it missing several key components.

The key problem for us is getting every single part we need. It's a "supply chain" problem. As these are the first production machines, we have to get a new supplier to make the part well for us, and that both takes time, and it can also go wrong.

For example, we've been working four months with a ceramics factory to get our drip trays and water tanks right, but yesterday we received their 2nd attempt, and they're badly warped. This is very annoying, because the drip tray cover is cast metal, and will take 2 months once we send it off to be made, but we've been holding off until we saw the real, final size of the ceramic drip tray. This ceramics company wants another 2 months to try again, but that would mean we'd be now delayed until mid-september, just for something as trivial as a drip tray cover. So, we're talking to a much more expensive company that we previously rejected ($10 per ceramic part!) to see if they can bring their price down because their quality was good.

I give that story above just to give you a flavor of what we're trying to do, and so you understand why there's no way to "jump the queue". Everyone will get their machines as soon as the last custom part arrives.

decent_espresso wrote:The only way I could give you a machine would be if you were ok with it missing several key components.

The key problem for us is getting every single part we need. It's a "supply chain" problem. As these are the first production machines, we have to get a new supplier to make the part well for us, and that both takes time, and it can also go wrong.

For example, we've been working four months with a ceramics factory to get our drip trays and water tanks right, but yesterday we received their 2nd attempt, and they're badly warped. This is very annoying, because the drip tray cover is cast metal, and will take 2 months once we send it off to be made, but we've been holding off until we saw the real, final size of the ceramic drip tray. This ceramics company wants another 2 months to try again, but that would mean we'd be now delayed until mid-september, just for something as trivial as a drip tray cover. So, we're talking to a much more expensive company that we previously rejected ($10 per ceramic part!) to see if they can bring their price down because their quality was good.

I give that story above just to give you a flavor of what we're trying to do, and so you understand why there's no way to "jump the queue". Everyone will get their machines as soon as the last custom part arrives.

Or you can start shipping machines without a driptray

I did preorder a few days ago because I ahve been following DE since the first talks of it, and because I really think it will be a game changer. I do work with a leading class, world wide, family run business with over 3000 products on our catalog, most of them produced in house by a 20 persons team, so I do understand that putting together a complex product can take a long time, specially if you want to make it as good as possible. IMHO, take the time you need cause I am interested in having the best final product possible.

decent_espresso wrote:The only way I could give you a machine would be if you were ok with it missing several key components.

The key problem for us is getting every single part we need. It's a "supply chain" problem. As these are the first production machines, we have to get a new supplier to make the part well for us, and that both takes time, and it can also go wrong.

For example, we've been working four months with a ceramics factory to get our drip trays and water tanks right, but yesterday we received their 2nd attempt, and they're badly warped. This is very annoying, because the drip tray cover is cast metal, and will take 2 months once we send it off to be made, but we've been holding off until we saw the real, final size of the ceramic drip tray. This ceramics company wants another 2 months to try again, but that would mean we'd be now delayed until mid-september, just for something as trivial as a drip tray cover. So, we're talking to a much more expensive company that we previously rejected ($10 per ceramic part!) to see if they can bring their price down because their quality was good.

I give that story above just to give you a flavor of what we're trying to do, and so you understand why there's no way to "jump the queue". Everyone will get their machines as soon as the last custom part arrives.

John, I think I wasn't clear enough, I didn't assume or suggest that you can speed up the process, I was only asking to update us, who pre-order many month ago, with expected shipping date. It's perfectly fine if that date moves, just keep updating it - I am sure many people would like to be notified. I totally understand all challenges, and last thing I would want is to get unfinished machine, I think all of us are happy to wait.

Thank you for your hard work!

ikir wrote:John, I think I wasn't clear enough, I didn't assume or suggest that you can speed up the process, I was only asking to update us, who pre-order many month ago, with expected shipping date. It's perfectly fine if that date moves, just keep updating it - I am sure many people would like to be notified. I totally understand all challenges, and last thing I would want is to get unfinished machine, I think all of us are happy to wait. Thank you for your hard work!

Oh yeah, of course, I'll continue to post progress toward building the machines!